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Re: how to write file into my android phone?

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  Re: how to write file into my android phone? Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-08-10 11:08 +0200
    Re: how to write file into my android phone? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-10 19:39 +1000
      Re: how to write file into my android phone? Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2014-08-10 11:46 +0200
        Re: how to write file into my android phone? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-10 12:56 +0300
          Re: how to write file into my android phone? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-11 22:58 +0000
            Re: how to write file into my android phone? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-12 14:18 +0000
      Re: how to write file into my android phone? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-08-10 20:51 -0400
    Re: how to write file into my android phone? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-08-12 16:31 +0300
    Re: how to write file into my android phone? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 16:09 +1000
      Re: how to write file into my android phone? Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 08:21 +0200

#75971 — Re: how to write file into my android phone?

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> wrote:
> 1) it's not necessarily j:   And not necessarily a single drive.

The OP claims it is a J: drive they want to write to.

> 2) the phone isn't necessarily visible on a pc as a drive at all.
>  For example the Samsung gs4.

This is actually true for ALL android devices, starting with Android 3.0.

It’s possible that the OP is running an ancient device, or a modern
one that appears as a USB drive for some reason (eg. custom ROM from
the manufacturer).

-- 
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <http://chriswarrick.com/>
PGP: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense

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#75973

Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> wrote:
>> 1) it's not necessarily j:   And not necessarily a single drive.
> 
> The OP claims it is a J: drive they want to write to.
> 
>> 2) the phone isn't necessarily visible on a pc as a drive at all.
>>  For example the Samsung gs4.
> 
> This is actually true for ALL android devices, starting with Android 3.0.

o_O

Android phones don't mount as storage devices?

Oh well, that's Android crossed off my list.



-- 
Steven

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#75974

Am 10.08.14 11:39, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
> Android phones don't mount as storage devices?
>
> Oh well, that's Android crossed off my list.
>

Not any longer. They used to, but the support for mass storage was 
dropped in favour of MTP to allow concurrent access from both the 
computer and the phone. It is still possible to activate the mass 
storage driver in current Android using custom firmware.

	Christian

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#75975

Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de>:

> Am 10.08.14 11:39, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>> Android phones don't mount as storage devices?
>> Oh well, that's Android crossed off my list.
>
> Not any longer. They used to, but the support for mass storage was
> dropped in favour of MTP

I don't see anything inherently wrong with an open protocol like MTP.

> to allow concurrent access from both the computer and the phone.

I don't know MTP at all, but

   MTP allows no parallelism; unlike USB mass storage, MTP has been
   built to only allow a single operation at a time (for example, read,
   write or delete operation), while no other operation can be executed
   until the previous operation is complete.
   <URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol#Drawbacks>


Marko

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#76084

On 2014-08-10, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
> Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de>:
>
>> Am 10.08.14 11:39, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>>> Android phones don't mount as storage devices?
>>> Oh well, that's Android crossed off my list.
>>
>> Not any longer. They used to, but the support for mass storage was
>> dropped in favour of MTP
>
> I don't see anything inherently wrong with an open protocol like MTP.
>
>> to allow concurrent access from both the computer and the phone.
>
> I don't know MTP at all, but
>
>    MTP allows no parallelism; unlike USB mass storage, MTP has been
>    built to only allow a single operation at a time (for example, read,
>    write or delete operation), while no other operation can be executed
>    until the previous operation is complete.
>    <URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol#Drawbacks>

That's the within MTP protocol itself, and that's not the "prallel
access" problem which MTP was intended to address.

What MTP allows is parallel access between the MTP protocol server in
the phone and the rest of the phone (OS and apps).  In order to mount
a partition as a USB mass storage device, it has to first be unmounted
by the Android system.  That's OK for an SD card that doesn't contain
anything important required by the Android system, but it means that
you can't mount the "system" partition without shutting down the phone
completely.

For phones that don't have an SD card, there is nothing _but_ the
system partition, and to mount it as a USB storage device you would
have to completely shut down the phone.  People don't like that.  They
want to keep the phone on while their doing <whatever> with their MP3
files and JPEG files and whatnot.

The only practical way to do that is to define a file transfer
protocol that doesn't require the entire parition be unmounted by the
phone.  Hence MTP.  It's something Microsoft came up with, so it of
course has their usual level of "broken-as-designed" about it, but in
general it works fairly well.  For Linux systems there's a user-space
MTP filesystem implementation that has always worked fine for me.

So in practice, it works just like as somewhat slow USB mass storage
device.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Now I understand the
                                  at               meaning of "THE MOD SQUAD"!
                              gmail.com            

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#76116

On 2014-08-11, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> What MTP allows is parallel access between the MTP protocol server in
> the phone and the rest of the phone (OS and apps).  In order to mount
> a partition as a USB mass storage device, it has to first be unmounted
> by the Android system.  That's OK for an SD card that doesn't contain
> anything important required by the Android system, but it means that
> you can't mount the "system" partition without shutting down the phone
> completely.

Another important reason for not presenting the phone's built-in flash
as a USB mass storage device is that it requires you to use a
brain-dead broken-as-designed Microsoft filesystem left over from the
days of 360K floppy disk drives -- otherwise Windows won't know what
to do with it.

It's _possible_ to build an Android phone tht runs an DOS file system
(and IIRC people have done it) but it introduces all sorts of
security, reliability, and performance problems.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I wonder if I ought
                                  at               to tell them about my
                              gmail.com            PREVIOUS LIFE as a COMPLETE
                                                   STRANGER?

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#76012

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 19:39:51 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> declaimed the following:

>Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> wrote:
>>> 1) it's not necessarily j:   And not necessarily a single drive.
>> 
>> The OP claims it is a J: drive they want to write to.
>> 
>>> 2) the phone isn't necessarily visible on a pc as a drive at all.
>>>  For example the Samsung gs4.
>> 
>> This is actually true for ALL android devices, starting with Android 3.0.
>
>o_O
>
>Android phones don't mount as storage devices?
>
	The Nook HD+ mounts as an MTP target (glorified FTP style connection).
The hosting device does NOT get direct access to the storage media but has
to ask the device to accept a file transfer to some location. This limits
transfers to sequential (one file at a time, if that transfer fails, all
remnants are removed from the file system).
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#76111

Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> writes:

>> 2) the phone isn't necessarily visible on a pc as a drive at all.
>>  For example the Samsung gs4.
>
> This is actually true for ALL android devices, starting with Android 3.0.

There was just a guy on comp.mobile.android saying his Android 4.2 phone
(BLU Dash or something like that, extremely Chinese) presents its
external SD card as a USB Mass Storage drive to a PC when connected over
USB. Exactly the thing Google hates and fears and has tried to kill
off... But it's not like Google can force anything on phones running
AOSP Android without Google services and that's China and a few other
large emerging markets. So it's just our small market here in the
western countries where Google has some control...

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#76264

On 10/08/2014 7:08 PM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:
>> 2) the phone isn't necessarily visible on a pc as a drive at all.
>>   For example the Samsung gs4.
>
> This is actually true for ALL android devices, starting with Android 3.0.

This isn't true for my Samsung gs2 running Android 4.1.2.

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#76265

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Aug 14, 2014 8:11 AM, "alex23" <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/08/2014 7:08 PM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:
>>>
>>> 2) the phone isn't necessarily visible on a pc as a drive at all.
>>>   For example the Samsung gs4.
>>
>>
>> This is actually true for ALL android devices, starting with Android 3.0.
>
>
> This isn't true for my Samsung gs2 running Android 4.1.2.

Apparently, Samsung modified the feature for this phone, which shipped with
2.3 Gingerbread, to prevent breaking user experience.  Galaxy S3 shipped
with 4.0 ICS and uses MTP.

-- 
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <http://chriswarrick.com/>
Sent from my SGS3.

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