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Groups > comp.lang.python > #72180 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-05-28 14:23 -0500 |
| Last post | 2014-05-31 09:28 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 324 — 57 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python
Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:23 -0500
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-28 21:39 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-28 22:41 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:49 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:58 -0500
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-29 03:49 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 21:23 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 06:38 -0500
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 06:15 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-28 21:24 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-28 23:14 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 15:12 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2014-07-14 23:37 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-14 23:47 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 18:00 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 11:18 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 09:28 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 18:54 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 12:11 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:18 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:40 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Martin S <shieldfire@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 06:31 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 05:41 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2014-07-16 20:18 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 22:15 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-07-17 17:36 +1200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:45 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:45 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 08:05 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 12:30 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 00:59 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 12:19 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-15 15:50 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 17:38 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-15 18:23 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 16:35 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-29 08:38 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 16:22 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python beliavsky@aol.com - 2014-08-06 06:47 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-06 14:42 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 12:42 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 13:37 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-08-07 21:07 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:57 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-05-31 12:07 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-31 13:09 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2014-05-31 13:22 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 04:57 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 13:35 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 21:11 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 13:38 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-06-01 07:01 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-01 07:52 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 13:41 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-01 12:53 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-06-01 17:21 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-06-02 07:14 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-31 12:30 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-31 08:48 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 09:01 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-02 16:15 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-02 12:21 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 02:30 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-02 16:52 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-06-02 19:16 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 11:53 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-02 18:59 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-06-02 23:12 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 23:30 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-03 09:03 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-06-03 07:22 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:58 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-15 00:23 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 08:31 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:47 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:20 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:17 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 23:00 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 09:57 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 00:31 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 20:38 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 19:06 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 23:01 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 03:51 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 14:20 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 07:33 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 08:52 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 16:26 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 09:44 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 16:50 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 00:11 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 07:49 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 18:44 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 11:35 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 21:54 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 13:46 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 12:10 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 22:55 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 06:10 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 16:11 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 06:22 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 00:04 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 17:39 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 01:23 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 18:48 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 02:07 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 19:20 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 02:51 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:15 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-17 12:27 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 07:18 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 07:49 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-07-30 14:31 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-16 17:02 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-16 18:47 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-16 16:27 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 15:41 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 00:00 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 18:16 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:14 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 08:17 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:49 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 20:34 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-18 14:17 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:20 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 23:54 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:16 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 21:47 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 12:12 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 21:12 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 11:15 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 04:27 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-17 21:44 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 19:24 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:39 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 21:40 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-18 08:24 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 08:34 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-18 14:19 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 08:35 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Torsten Bronger <bronger@physik.rwth-aachen.de> - 2014-07-18 17:25 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 19:45 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 20:06 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2014-07-17 12:22 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 21:37 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-17 17:30 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-17 20:13 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:38 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 01:26 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:54 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Andrew Berg <aberg010@my.hennepintech.edu> - 2014-07-17 19:45 -0500
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 13:01 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:45 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:15 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 20:37 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 15:34 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 02:21 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 18:27 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-18 16:46 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:49 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:50 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 17:22 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 21:27 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 21:21 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 09:29 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 02:41 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 12:00 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 13:39 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:13 +1000
Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 16:45 -0400
Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 18:31 -0700
Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 11:42 +1000
Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-20 12:40 +0100
Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 17:52 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 18:22 -0700
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 11:32 +1000
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 23:49 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 10:55 +1000
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 23:28 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 13:34 +1000
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-21 05:00 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-21 13:00 -0700
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 20:56 +1000
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-21 14:30 -0400
Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-22 04:35 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 15:50 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 19:23 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:10 +1000
Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-21 02:54 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 08:24 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:20 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 19:31 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-18 20:44 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 14:37 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-07-18 18:09 -0400
Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-19 07:28 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 11:08 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 14:31 -0400
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-20 01:23 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 11:39 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 18:53 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] CHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 08:37 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 14:18 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 07:50 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:19 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 10:41 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 18:24 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 19:03 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 20:10 -0700
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-01 13:10 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 21:22 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-01 15:19 +0300
Re: Python and IDEs Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 22:30 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-01 23:10 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 23:30 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-01 18:13 +0300
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:38 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-06 22:51 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-11 11:08 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 15:28 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:47 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 13:32 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-11 11:08 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-08-11 09:37 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 20:20 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-11 14:45 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-11 18:42 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-12 10:11 +1000
Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-11 19:27 -0500
Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-12 02:07 +0000
Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 12:13 +1000
Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-11 21:23 -0500
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-13 12:42 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-13 23:35 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-13 16:51 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 00:39 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 11:14 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 09:50 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Olaf Hering <olaf@aepfle.de> - 2014-08-02 09:10 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 23:38 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2014-08-01 19:16 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:47 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-11 18:39 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-13 13:46 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 14:22 -0600
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-01 22:09 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 12:00 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 10:20 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 23:33 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 23:01 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:01 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 11:12 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-02 14:55 +0100
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:04 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2014-08-03 09:46 +0200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-02 10:27 -0400
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:20 +1200
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 09:48 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-05 13:29 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-06 02:50 +1000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-05 19:25 +0000
Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-08-05 14:28 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 19:26 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-08-03 21:21 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 01:18 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Javier <nospam@nospam.com> - 2014-07-16 17:33 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 11:50 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:33 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 04:25 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Neil D. Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2014-07-16 11:48 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-16 18:34 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 08:31 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 16:41 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 09:09 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 17:59 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Glenn Linderman <v+python@g.nevcal.com> - 2014-08-01 23:18 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 21:24 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 13:47 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:07 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 02:08 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:05 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 22:49 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:43 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 18:30 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 04:10 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 16:53 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-16 02:57 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2014-07-16 20:20 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:38 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 09:07 +0530
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-16 09:18 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 12:20 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-07-17 14:17 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-07-16 00:45 +0100
Interleaved posting style for text discussion forums (was: Python 3 is killing Python) Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-07-17 14:02 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 23:38 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 20:43 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-07-15 23:05 -0400
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-16 13:59 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 11:01 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 21:08 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 18:57 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 22:49 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 18:53 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 13:20 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:46 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 12:53 -0600
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2014-07-15 17:02 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-15 15:43 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 16:44 +0100
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 01:48 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:48 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 07:03 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 10:36 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 03:52 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 11:38 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 04:48 +1000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:01 +0000
Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-15 06:33 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 05:00 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-31 15:44 +0300
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 05:05 +0200
Re: Python 3 is killing Python pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> - 2014-07-12 10:50 -0700
Re: Python 3 is killing Python Deb Wyatt <codemonkey@inbox.com> - 2014-05-31 09:28 -0800
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| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-21 05:00 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12121.1405933234.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74853 |
On 7/20/2014 11:34 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote: >> A few users have noticed (and complained) that setting sys.ps1 and sys.ps2 >> *in the batch mode user process* has no effect. The Idle doc should better >> explain why this is and should be. User code should not affect the >> operation of Idle. Idle is separately configured through dialogs. > > As I understand it, setting them has *absolutely* no effect, > currently, right? As far as I know, setting sys.ps1 and sys.ps2 have no effect in any batch mode program. This has nothing to do with Idle. > There's no situation in which it would be useful to > set them? In that case, it might be useful to put some magic in there > (although I'm not sure it's possible; can't use @property at top level > in a module) that gives a notification - pointing users to the dialog. In general, Idle should execute user code the same way that the interpreter does, subject to the limitations of the different execution environment. > No idea how you'd go about it, but telling someone when what s/he does > is useless can be helpful. What needs better documentation is what the execution environment is, and how the shell is different from a line-buffered console. -- Terry Jan Reedy
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | wxjmfauth@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-21 13:00 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read |
| Message-ID | <e4acaaed-d231-4c3b-81b8-1f8a4e6c7432@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #74912 |
Le lundi 21 juillet 2014 11:00:15 UTC+2, Terry Reedy a écrit :
> On 7/20/2014 11:34 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
>
> >> A few users have noticed (and complained) that setting sys.ps1 and sys.ps2
>
> >> *in the batch mode user process* has no effect. The Idle doc should better
>
> >> explain why this is and should be. User code should not affect the
>
> >> operation of Idle. Idle is separately configured through dialogs.
>
> >
>
> > As I understand it, setting them has *absolutely* no effect,
>
> > currently, right?
>
>
>
> As far as I know, setting sys.ps1 and sys.ps2 have no effect in any
>
> batch mode program. This has nothing to do with Idle.
>
>
>
> > There's no situation in which it would be useful to
>
> > set them? In that case, it might be useful to put some magic in there
>
> > (although I'm not sure it's possible; can't use @property at top level
>
> > in a module) that gives a notification - pointing users to the dialog.
>
>
>
> In general, Idle should execute user code the same way that the
>
> interpreter does, subject to the limitations of the different execution
>
> environment.
>
>
>
> > No idea how you'd go about it, but telling someone when what s/he does
>
> > is useless can be helpful.
>
>
>
> What needs better documentation is what the execution environment is,
>
> and how the shell is different from a line-buffered console.
>
>
-----
Just the coding of characters is making a gui
application different from a console application.
A gui application is living with its own coding,
and not necessarly with the operating system coding.
That's why in my py3* interactive interpreters,
I have (I defined) very correctly things
like this:
>>> sys.stdout.encoding
'<unicode>'
>>> sys.stderr.encoding
'<unicode>'
>>> sys.stdin.encoding
'<unicode>'
The "sys coding" is not the operating system, it
is the "coding of the gui". In Py3, one does
not pass or populate a text widget with an
"encoded string", a string is passed directly as
a "unicode type", because the gui is built to
work like this. Something like an coding-less
string.
In the console ("dos-box"), the following is
correct:
>>> sys.stdout.encoding
'cp1252'
------
Generally, speaking, this is a perpetual annoyment
(to be polite) in Python. Python is always attempting
to find a solution for the "Python user", to enforce a
coding usage instead of letting the user/programmer
doing the task correctly.
I'm not alone to think like this and I have seen
many times people complaining about this.
jmf
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-21 20:56 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12123.1405940180.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74853 |
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote: > In general, Idle should execute user code the same way that the interpreter > does, subject to the limitations of the different execution environment. Agreed, but I think the setting of prompts is a "different execution environment" case. It's a fundamental difference between batch mode and interactive, and Idle uses batch mode to implement interactive mode. So something like: >>> sys.ps1="Python> " "Setting sys.ps1 has no effect in Idle; see the Options menu." >>> It might not be possible, but if it is, it wouldn't break any actual viable use-cases. ChrisA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-21 14:30 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12142.1405967455.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74853 |
On 7/21/2014 6:56 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
>> In general, Idle should execute user code the same way that the interpreter
>> does, subject to the limitations of the different execution environment.
>
> Agreed, but I think the setting of prompts is a "different execution
> environment" case. It's a fundamental difference between batch mode
> and interactive, and Idle uses batch mode to implement interactive
> mode. So something like:
>
>>>> sys.ps1="Python> "
> "Setting sys.ps1 has no effect in Idle; see the Options menu."
>>>>
>
> It might not be possible, but if it is, it wouldn't break any actual
> viable use-cases.
It would be a lot of work for close to 0 gain. It could not work
consistent without special-casing sys assignments. Consider
>>> prompt1 = 'Me>'
>>> setps1 = sys.ps1
>>> setps1(prompt1)
;-(.
Idle cannot exactly imitate the interactive interpreter (II) because it
does not execute code in exactly the same way. For instance,
http://bugs.python.org/issue21997
reported that fact that the sequence
>>>def dodebug():
pdb.set_trace()
>>>dodebug()
behaves differently in Idle and II. Not knowing the details of Idle
(currently only available in the code), the OP claimed that this is an
Idle bug. It turns out that running dodebug indirectly
>>> def run_code(code): exec(code, globals())
>>> run('dodebug()')
*in the II* behaves like Idle. The above is essentially how Idle runs
code. (The difference is that it substitutes a custom namespace
designed to look like the globals() of a main modules, include having
__name__ == '__main__'.)
Well, at least I know now, so I know how to review claims that Idle is
buggy when it acts a bit differently than the II. The exec abstraction
has a few tiny leaks if one looks hard enough, such as with the
debugger. Using inspect to look at the frame stack would also show a
difference.
--
Terry Jan Reedy
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-22 04:35 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12143.1405967740.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74853 |
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:30 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote: > It would be a lot of work for close to 0 gain. It could not work consistent > without special-casing sys assignments. The latter doesn't much matter (this is just a theory to help people realize what they've done, not an actual preventative - it's like if someone types "quit" and it comes back with a custom repr that tells them about quit() or EOF), but the former is the important bit here. Not a big deal, not worth a huge amount of effort. At best, this is something to docket away as "here's another thing that we could do if we had an equivalent for @property at module-level", nothing more. (Because with that, it would be pretty easy.) ChrisA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-19 15:50 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <f5b8a76a-b32a-4a7e-a8b9-0381ca37a389@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #74819 |
[A missed point from my last reply...]
Terry Reedy said:
> I believe there is a proposal to be able to clear the
> shell window. We just need to add "Clear and restart
> shell".
A command that allows a user to clear the *ENTIRE* "shell
IO" and *ALSO* resets the global and local symbol tables
*WITHOUT* requiring a re-start of the IDLE application,
would be a great addition indeed!
Currently "IDLE shell" has *ONLY* the "Restart Shell"
command, which simply resets the symbol table whilst leaving
all previous "shell IO" untouched. Which is useful in some
situations, but not all...
CONSIDER,
Sometimes you just want to remove the displayed result of
the *LAST* command executed *WHILST* maintaining any
previous displayed "shell IO" -- for instance, in the case
of accidentally printing a *very large* data structure, or a
horrendously untrimmed "dir()" requests.
############################################################
# DISAMBIGUATION: "EditUndo" vs "OutputUndo" #
############################################################
# In order to prevent confusion with the typical "edit- #
# undo" of "CONTROL+Z", we should refer to the action of #
# "remove the last output displayed" as an "output-undo". #
############################################################
To solve this dilemma in *MY* command shell, i use the
"ALT+UP_ARROW" to delete everything from the "last command
prompt" up to "the end of the text buffer", in effect,
creating an "output-undo" command without *DEFILING* the
standard semantics of ubiquitous "CONTROL+Z".
I think IDLE needs all three functionality of:
1. Reset symbol tables *WHILST* retaining previous "shell
IO" (Already exists via "Shell->Restart Shell")
2. Reset symbol tables *AND* clear all "shell IO" (Maybe:
"Shell->Reset Shell")
3. Remove the displayed result of the *LAST* command
processed. (Maybe: "Shell->Remove Last Output")
Hotkeys for all three are a must and should be configurable
by the user.
> There is also an idea to put help output in an
> output window.
I believe more windows just creates more confusion for the
user. Sometimes you have no choice but to add additional
"views" to a GUI interface, however, in this case at least,
i believe a menu command (coupled with a keyboard event) is
a best solution to maintain the highest level of "interface
manageability" -- IMHO.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-19 19:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12070.1405812272.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74841 |
On 7/19/2014 6:50 PM, Rick Johnson wrote: > > [A missed point from my last reply...] > > Terry Reedy said: >> I believe there is a proposal to be able to clear the >> shell window. We just need to add "Clear and restart >> shell". > # In order to prevent confusion with the typical "edit- # > # undo" of "CONTROL+Z", we should refer to the action of # > # "remove the last output displayed" as an "output-undo". # That would make implementation easier. > I think IDLE needs all three functionality of: > > 1. Reset symbol tables *WHILST* retaining previous "shell > IO" (Already exists via "Shell->Restart Shell") > > 2. Reset symbol tables *AND* clear all "shell IO" (Maybe: > "Shell->Reset Shell") > > 3. Remove the displayed result of the *LAST* command > processed. (Maybe: "Shell->Remove Last Output") > > Hotkeys for all three are a must I consider them a nicety. We will eventually run out of simple hot keys. > and should be configurable by the user. I believe anything Idle controls is. >> There is also an idea to put help output in an >> output window. In the new issue, I said 'move the last output' from the shell to a window, so it would be entirely optional. > I believe more windows just creates more confusion for the > user. I expect to eventually look at G.Polo's patch for using tabbed notebooks, which will help with this. -- Terry Jan Reedy
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-20 09:10 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12067.1405811457.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74819 |
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 4:00 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: >>> However, a *bare* HOME_KEY press is placing the insertion >>> cursor *BEHIND* the prompt of the current line. In a shell >>> environment, you never want to be *BEHIND* the command >>> prompt. >> >> I don't know about the old versions, but in 3.4, it seems to be set so >> the Home key toggles between the beginning of the code and the >> beginning of the line. Seems a useful feature, although I can >> understand if you'd want to disable it and set the Home key to only >> ever go to the beginning of code. But that's a configuration question; >> this does not appear to be a bug. > > I'd say that moving the cursor to a position where you can't type is a > bug. In that case, "beginning of the line" should be understood to be > after the prompt. You can copy and paste from there. It's functionally equivalent to being able to press Up arrow and move above the currently-editable line. But even if it weren't for that, my statement would still be correct: It's not a bug, and therefore not embarrassment, because it's a feature that you may or may not like. ChrisA
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-21 02:54 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12105.1405907686.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74819 |
On 19/07/2014 21:45, Terry Reedy wrote: > > If you are talking about user processes, and we are talking about > patching Idle, as opposed to Python or the OS (such as Windows), I > disagree. If you are talking about the Idle process, then yes, I would > prefer that once Idle starts, it run forever, and recover from any > problems caused by users. Roger Serwy fixed many Idle shutdowns before > being swallowed by a PhD program a year ago, but there is more to do. > Which has just reminded me of this http://idlex.sourceforge.net/ which is available from pypi, with the last update dated 2014-06-02. I'll quote from the sourceforge page "IdleX is a collection of over twenty extensions and plugins that provide additional functionality to IDLE, a Python IDE provided in the standard library. It transforms IDLE into a more useful tool for academic research and development as well as exploratory programming. IdleX runs with Python 2.6, 2.7, and 3.x." -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-18 08:24 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.11986.1405668315.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74663 |
On 18/07/2014 01:45, Andrew Berg wrote: > On 2014.07.17 19:26, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> I'm looking forward to see the massive number of fixes that come from >> rr, assuming of course that he signs the CLA to make this possible. Or >> has he already done so? >> > Maybe he's too busy working on RickPy 4000 (or whatever it was called). > I believe that rick would be a very apt word in this case. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-18 18:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <53c9655a$0$9505$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #74663 |
On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:15:59 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote: > On Thursday, July 17, 2014 5:12:23 AM UTC-5, Fabien wrote: >> For non-informatic students [...] I don't think that's true. Less >> general languages like Matlab appear much easier to me: unified doc, >> unified IDE, unified debugger > > I'll agree that the lack of a "quality" IDE in Python is a point of > inadequacy. https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments PyDev, Eric, Komodo, PyCharm, WingIDE, SPE, Ninja-IDE, Geany, IEP, Spyder, Boa Constructor, PyScripter, NetBeans, Emacs, KDevelop, BlackAdder, ... [...] > Sadly, all of my calls to improve IDLE have been meet with rebukes about > me "whining". Why don't you go volunteer to fix a few IDLE bugs, instead of just demanding that others do it? http://bugs.python.org/issue17620 -- Steven
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-18 19:31 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12008.1405708309.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74761 |
On 18/07/2014 19:20, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:15:59 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote: > >> Sadly, all of my calls to improve IDLE have been meet with rebukes about >> me "whining". > > Why don't you go volunteer to fix a few IDLE bugs, instead of just > demanding that others do it? > > http://bugs.python.org/issue17620 > Has time to complain but doesn't have time to fix bugs? -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
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| From | MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-18 20:44 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12013.1405712668.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74761 |
On 2014-07-18 19:20, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:15:59 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote: > >> On Thursday, July 17, 2014 5:12:23 AM UTC-5, Fabien wrote: >>> For non-informatic students [...] I don't think that's true. Less >>> general languages like Matlab appear much easier to me: unified >>> doc, unified IDE, unified debugger >> >> I'll agree that the lack of a "quality" IDE in Python is a point of >> inadequacy. > > https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments > > PyDev, Eric, Komodo, PyCharm, WingIDE, SPE, Ninja-IDE, Geany, IEP, > Spyder, Boa Constructor, PyScripter, NetBeans, Emacs, KDevelop, > BlackAdder, ... > [snip] Yes, but _apart_ from PyDev, Eric, Komodo, PyCharm, WingIDE, SPE, Ninja-IDE, Geany, IEP, Spyder, Boa Constructor, PyScripter, NetBeans, Emacs, KDevelop and BlackAdder, why isn't there a "quality" IDE? (Sorry, but it had to be said. :-))
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| From | Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-18 14:37 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <368c1e4f-9328-445b-9876-9f26560a50c2@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #74761 |
On Friday, July 18, 2014 1:20:10 PM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > PyDev, Eric, Komodo, PyCharm, WingIDE, SPE, Ninja-IDE, > Geany, IEP, Spyder, Boa Constructor, PyScripter, NetBeans, > Emacs, KDevelop, BlackAdder, ... And tell me Steven, how many of those "quality" IDEs that you listed actually *SHIP* with Python? The *WHOLE* reason for GvR *CREATING* and then *SHIPPING* IDLE, was to provide a simplistic native IDE for the noobs. That was his gift to the noobs, HOWEVER, this community has *SQUANDERED* that gift, and allowed it putrefy for over a decade and a half! A noob has not idea what an IDE *IS*, much less where to find a decent IDE, or what IDEs are even compatible with Python! IDLE was meant to provide a tool by which noobs can use to start writing Python code "out of the box". Do you remember the acronym of "CP4E"[1]? Sadly, most people in this community seem to forgotten, *MAYBE* even the dicktator himself! [1]: https://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e/
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| From | Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-18 18:09 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12021.1405721385.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74779 |
On 7/18/14 5:37 PM, Rick Johnson wrote: > On Friday, July 18, 2014 1:20:10 PM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> PyDev, Eric, Komodo, PyCharm, WingIDE, SPE, Ninja-IDE, >> Geany, IEP, Spyder, Boa Constructor, PyScripter, NetBeans, >> Emacs, KDevelop, BlackAdder, ... > > And tell me Steven, how many of those "quality" IDEs that > you listed actually *SHIP* with Python? > > The *WHOLE* reason for GvR *CREATING* and then *SHIPPING* > IDLE, was to provide a simplistic native IDE for the noobs. > That was his gift to the noobs, HOWEVER, this community has > *SQUANDERED* that gift, and allowed it putrefy for over a > decade and a half! > > A noob has not idea what an IDE *IS*, much less where to > find a decent IDE, or what IDEs are even compatible with > Python! IDLE was meant to provide a tool by which noobs can > use to start writing Python code "out of the box". > > Do you remember the acronym of "CP4E"[1]? Sadly, most people > in this community seem to forgotten, *MAYBE* even the > dicktator himself! > > [1]: https://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e/ > As a group, we have dealt with caustic respondents before. The way to get them to stop dragging threads into pointless arguments is to ignore them. I would advise doing the same in this case. All I see here is disrespectful trolling. -- Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-19 07:28 +0000 |
| Subject | Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] |
| Message-ID | <53ca1e27$0$9505$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #74779 |
Earlier, I mentioned a considerable number of IDEs which are available
for Python, including:
PyDev, Eric, Komodo, PyCharm, WingIDE, SPE, Ninja-IDE, Geany, IEP,
Spyder, Boa Constructor, PyScripter, NetBeans, Emacs, KDevelop, and
BlackAdder.
https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments
There is also IDLE, which is part of the standard Python installation, as
well as my preference: Unix/Linux as an IDE.
http://blog.sanctum.geek.nz/series/unix-as-ide/
http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/01/09/ide-culture-vs-unix-philosophy/
Some people ask:
"How many of those quality IDEs ship with Python?"
Most don't, of course, since they are third-party tools. Not that it
matters: it's 2014, not 1974, and anyone in the developed world
interested in computer programming has easy access to the information
superhighway sometimes know as "the Internet". (Many people in developing
nations also have access to the Internet, and those who don't probably
have bigger problems to worry about.) With the Internet, most of these
IDEs are normally just a few clicks away.
People using Linux will generally find that they can install some of
these IDEs using their package manager. For example, Red Hat Linux based
systems such on Centos or Fedora can use the yum package manager, e.g.:
yum install geany geany-plugins
while Debian and Ubuntu based systems (such as Mint) can use apt-get or
aptitude, e.g.:
aptitude install eric
apt-get install spe
Of course, most Linux distros include a GUI front-end to their package
manager, but frankly if you're programming on Linux and you're unwilling
to use the command line, you're making life harder for yourself than it
need be.
Windows and OS X users, sadly, miss out on the power of an integrated
package manager. OS X have a couple of third-party packaging systems,
MacPorts and Homebrew:
http://www.macports.org/
http://brew.sh/
Unfortunately, software development on Windows is something of a ghetto,
compared to the wide range of free tools available for Linux. Outside of
a few oases like Microsoft's own commercial development tools, it's hard
to do development on Windows. Hard, but not impossible, of course, and
there are quite a few resources available for the Windows user willing to
download installers from the Internet. For Python users, the IDEs from
Wingware and Activestate are notable:
https://wingware.com/
http://komodoide.com/
Some people are under the impression that IDEs are mostly or even solely
for the benefit of "newbies" or "n00bs". That's a gross misunderstanding
of the situation: the average newbie is likely to be happy writing code
using Notepad, or whatever bare-bones text editor they're used to, and
may not even know what an IDE is. It's those with some experience in
programming (particularly in the Java and Visual Basic worlds) who are
more likely to expect an IDE.
Another patronising view is that those who are new to programming are
automatically too incompetent or ignorant to download or install an IDE
without hand-holding. Even if that were the case, there is no shortage of
hand-holding available on the Internet, with dozens or hundreds of
forums, mailing lists, tutorial, videos and blogs offering to help. (It
is undeniable that the quality of these is *extremely* variable, but
that's another story.) This is the Internet generation, if software has a
downloadable installer, or can be installed using a package manager, most
people can deal with it, and those who can't have many opportunities to
learn. (It's probably a bit much to expect the average newbie to install
software from source, especially on Windows which doesn't come with much
in the way of compilers and other development tools, but still, it has to
be said that if you're hoping to become a programmer, installing software
from source is one of the skills you should learn.)
So why does Python ship with IDLE? It's not because Python requires an
IDE, or that newbies need one, or that there aren't alternatives. The
biggest reason for Python shipping with an IDE is not that people are
unable to install alternatives, but that a lot of people are *prohibited*
from doing so. For those of us who have control over our computing
environment, it's all too easy to forget that a lot of people (e.g.
students using school computers, or people in corporate environments
where the desktops are locked down to a standard operating environment)
aren't able to install the IDE of their choice. It's relatively easy to
get Python itself approved -- on many systems, Python comes pre-installed
-- but trying to get approval to also install third-party software is
difficult or impossible. It is for the sake of those people, people who
prefer or require an IDE but don't have the choice to install third-party
software, that Python ships with a minimal but usable IDE.
--
Steven
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| From | "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-19 11:08 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12053.1405793336.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74796 |
On 7/19/2014 12:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Earlier, I mentioned a considerable number of IDEs which are available > for Python, including: I prefer to use Notepad++ (Windows) and TextWrangler (Mac). Text editors with code highlighting can get the job done as well, especially if the project is modest and doesn't require version control. Chris Reimer
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| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-19 14:31 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12055.1405794725.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74796 |
On 7/19/2014 3:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > So why does Python ship with IDLE? On Windows the Idle shell is needed for sensible interactive use. For simply editing a Python file, running it, and fixing it, the Idle editor seems *about* as good as anything. > It's not because Python requires an > IDE, or that newbies need one, or that there aren't alternatives. The > biggest reason for Python shipping with an IDE is not that people are > unable to install alternatives, but that a lot of people are *prohibited* > from doing so. This is true, but I think it understates the case. -- Terry Jan Reedy
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-20 01:23 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] |
| Message-ID | <53cb1a12$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #74827 |
On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 14:31:10 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/19/2014 3:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> So why does Python ship with IDLE? > > On Windows the Idle shell is needed for sensible interactive use. One might say that *some* IDE is needed, but Idle itself isn't compulsory :-) It also depends on what you consider sensible. I haven't used Python on Windows much, but when I did use it, I found the standard Python interactive interpreter running under cmd.exe to be bare- bones but usable for testing short snippets. If I recall correctly, it is missing any sort of command history or line editing other than backspace, which I guess it would have been painful to use for extensive interactive work, but when I started using Python on Linux the interactive interpreter had no readline support either so it was just like old times :-) -- Steven
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-07-20 11:39 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12077.1405820377.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #74850 |
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > If I recall correctly, it [Python under cmd.exe] is > missing any sort of command history or line editing other than backspace, Not quite, but it has some extreme oddities. I'd have to call them features because I can't imagine them to be bugs, but they're very surprising... like how you can recall something, but if you enter it without any editing, your "current recall position" is retained. This means you can re-enter a series of lines by recalling the first and then pressing Down, Enter for each subsequent line (it's a feature!), but it means that any usage where the lines are truly independent will start getting very awkward. In contrast, Idle recalls entire suites, rather than individual lines, which (IMO) makes it superior to a readline-based interface. ChrisA
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