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Groups > comp.lang.python > #72180 > unrolled thread

Python 3 is killing Python

Started byLarry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com>
First post2014-05-28 14:23 -0500
Last post2014-05-31 09:28 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 324 — 57 participants

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Contents

  Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:23 -0500
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-28 21:39 +0200
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-28 22:41 +0300
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:49 -0700
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:58 -0500
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-29 03:49 +0000
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 21:23 -0700
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 06:38 -0500
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 06:15 +1000
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-28 21:24 +0100
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-28 23:14 -0700
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 15:12 -0700
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2014-07-14 23:37 +0100
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-14 23:47 +0100
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 18:00 -0700
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 11:18 +1000
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 09:28 +1000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 18:54 -0700
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 12:11 +1000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:18 -0700
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:40 +1000
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Martin S <shieldfire@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 06:31 +0200
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 05:41 +0000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2014-07-16 20:18 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 22:15 -0700
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-07-17 17:36 +1200
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:45 +1000
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:45 +1000
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 08:05 +0100
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 12:30 +0000
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 00:59 +0100
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 12:19 +0000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-15 15:50 +0100
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 17:38 +0000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-15 18:23 +0000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 16:35 +0100
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-29 08:38 +1000
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 16:22 -0700
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python beliavsky@aol.com - 2014-08-06 06:47 -0700
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-06 14:42 -0400
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 12:42 +1000
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 13:37 +1000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-08-07 21:07 -0400
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:57 -0400
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-05-31 12:07 +0200
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-31 13:09 +0200
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2014-05-31 13:22 +0200
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 04:57 +0200
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 13:35 +1000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 21:11 -0700
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 13:38 +0200
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-06-01 07:01 +0100
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-01 07:52 +0100
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 13:41 +0200
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-01 12:53 +0100
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-06-01 17:21 +0000
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-06-02 07:14 +0100
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-31 12:30 +0000
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-31 08:48 -0700
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 09:01 -0600
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-02 16:15 +0000
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-02 12:21 -0400
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 02:30 +1000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-02 16:52 +0000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-06-02 19:16 +0200
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 11:53 -0600
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-02 18:59 +0100
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-06-02 23:12 -0700
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 23:30 -0700
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-03 09:03 +0100
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-06-03 07:22 -0400
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:58 -0600
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-15 00:23 -0700
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 08:31 +0100
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:47 -0600
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:20 +1000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:17 +0200
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 23:00 +1000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 09:57 -0400
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 00:31 +1000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 20:38 +0300
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 19:06 +0000
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 23:01 +0300
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 03:51 +0000
                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 14:20 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 07:33 +0000
                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 08:52 +0300
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 16:26 +1000
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 09:44 +0300
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 16:50 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 00:11 -0700
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 07:49 +0000
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 18:44 +1000
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 11:35 +0000
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 21:54 +1000
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 13:46 +0300
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 12:10 +0000
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 22:55 +1000
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 06:10 -0700
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 16:11 +0300
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 06:22 -0700
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 00:04 +1000
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 17:39 +0300
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 01:23 +1000
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 18:48 +0300
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 02:07 +1000
                                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 19:20 +0300
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 02:51 +0000
                                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:15 +1000
                                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-17 12:27 +0100
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 07:18 +0200
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 07:49 +0000
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-07-30 14:31 -0700
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-16 17:02 -0400
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-16 18:47 -0400
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-16 16:27 +0200
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 15:41 -0700
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 00:00 +0100
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 18:16 -0700
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:14 +0000
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 08:17 +0100
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:49 +1000
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 20:34 -0700
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-18 14:17 +0000
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:20 +1000
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 23:54 +0100
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:16 +0000
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 21:47 -0700
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 12:12 +0200
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 21:12 +1000
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 11:15 -0700
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 04:27 +1000
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-17 21:44 +0300
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 19:24 -0700
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:39 +1000
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 21:40 -0600
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-18 08:24 +0300
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 08:34 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-18 14:19 +0000
                                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 08:35 -0600
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Torsten Bronger <bronger@physik.rwth-aachen.de> - 2014-07-18 17:25 +0200
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 19:45 -0400
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 20:06 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2014-07-17 12:22 -0700
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 21:37 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-17 17:30 -0400
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-17 20:13 -0400
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:38 +0000
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 01:26 +0100
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:54 +1000
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Andrew Berg <aberg010@my.hennepintech.edu> - 2014-07-17 19:45 -0500
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 13:01 +1000
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:45 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:15 +1000
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 20:37 -0700
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 15:34 +1000
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 02:21 -0600
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 18:27 +1000
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-18 16:46 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:49 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:50 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 17:22 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 21:27 -0400
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 21:21 -0400
                                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 09:29 -0700
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 02:41 +1000
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 12:00 -0600
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 13:39 -0700
                                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:13 +1000
                                                  Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 16:45 -0400
                                                    Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 18:31 -0700
                                                      Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 11:42 +1000
                                                      Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-20 12:40 +0100
                                                      Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 17:52 -0400
                                                        Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 18:22 -0700
                                                          Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 11:32 +1000
                                                          Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 23:49 -0400
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 10:55 +1000
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 23:28 -0400
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 13:34 +1000
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-21 05:00 -0400
                                                        Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-21 13:00 -0700
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 20:56 +1000
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-21 14:30 -0400
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-22 04:35 +1000
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 15:50 -0700
                                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 19:23 -0400
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:10 +1000
                                                  Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-21 02:54 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 08:24 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:20 +0000
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 19:31 +0100
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-18 20:44 +0100
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 14:37 -0700
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-07-18 18:09 -0400
                                              Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-19 07:28 +0000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 11:08 -0700
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 14:31 -0400
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-20 01:23 +0000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 11:39 +1000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 18:53 -0700
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] CHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 08:37 -0700
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 14:18 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 07:50 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:19 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 10:41 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 18:24 -0700
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 19:03 -0700
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 20:10 -0700
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-01 13:10 +0200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 21:22 +1000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-01 15:19 +0300
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 22:30 +1000
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-01 23:10 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 23:30 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-01 18:13 +0300
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:38 +0200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-06 22:51 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-11 11:08 +0200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 15:28 +0100
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:47 +0200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 13:32 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-11 11:08 +0200
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-08-11 09:37 +0000
                                                            Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 20:20 +1000
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-11 14:45 +0100
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-11 18:42 +0000
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-12 10:11 +1000
                                                            Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-11 19:27 -0500
                                                              Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-12 02:07 +0000
                                                                Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 12:13 +1000
                                                                Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-11 21:23 -0500
                                                            Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-13 12:42 +0200
                                                              Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-13 23:35 +1000
                                                              Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-13 16:51 +0100
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 00:39 +1000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 11:14 +1200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 09:50 +1000
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Olaf Hering <olaf@aepfle.de> - 2014-08-02 09:10 +0200
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 23:38 +1200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2014-08-01 19:16 +0200
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:47 +0200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-11 18:39 +0000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-13 13:46 +0200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 14:22 -0600
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-01 22:09 +0100
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 12:00 +1200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 10:20 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 23:33 +1200
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 23:01 +1000
                                                            Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:01 +1200
                                                              Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 11:12 +1000
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-02 14:55 +0100
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:04 +1200
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2014-08-03 09:46 +0200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-02 10:27 -0400
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:20 +1200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 09:48 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-05 13:29 +0000
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-06 02:50 +1000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-05 19:25 +0000
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-08-05 14:28 -0700
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 19:26 -0400
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-08-03 21:21 -0400
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 01:18 +1000
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Javier <nospam@nospam.com> - 2014-07-16 17:33 +0000
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 11:50 -0600
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:33 +0000
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 04:25 +0000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Neil D. Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2014-07-16 11:48 -0400
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-16 18:34 +0100
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 08:31 +0200
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 16:41 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 09:09 +0200
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 17:59 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Glenn Linderman <v+python@g.nevcal.com> - 2014-08-01 23:18 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 21:24 +0100
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 13:47 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:07 +0530
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 02:08 +0000
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:05 +0530
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 22:49 +0100
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:43 +0530
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 18:30 -0400
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 04:10 +0530
                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 16:53 -0700
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-16 02:57 +0100
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2014-07-16 20:20 -0700
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:38 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 09:07 +0530
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-16 09:18 +0100
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 12:20 +0200
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-07-17 14:17 +1000
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-07-16 00:45 +0100
                          Interleaved posting style for text discussion forums (was: Python 3 is killing Python) Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-07-17 14:02 +1000
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 23:38 +0100
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 20:43 -0400
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-07-15 23:05 -0400
                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-16 13:59 +0000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 11:01 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 21:08 +0300
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 18:57 +0000
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 22:49 +0300
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 18:53 +0000
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 13:20 -0700
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:46 -0600
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 12:53 -0600
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2014-07-15 17:02 +0200
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-15 15:43 +0000
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 16:44 +0100
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 01:48 +1000
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:48 +1000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 07:03 +0000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 10:36 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 03:52 +1000
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 11:38 -0700
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 04:48 +1000
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:01 +0000
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-15 06:33 -0700
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 05:00 +0200
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-31 15:44 +0300
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 05:05 +0200
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> - 2014-07-12 10:50 -0700
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Deb Wyatt <codemonkey@inbox.com> - 2014-05-31 09:28 -0800

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#74857 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

From"C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com>
Date2014-07-19 18:53 -0700
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12079.1405821230.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74850
On 7/19/2014 6:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I haven't used Python on Windows much, but when I did use it, I found 
> the standard Python interactive interpreter running under cmd.exe to 
> be bare- bones but usable for testing short snippets. If I recall 
> correctly, it is missing any sort of command history or line editing 
> other than backspace, which I guess it would have been painful to use 
> for extensive interactive work, but when I started using Python on 
> Linux the interactive interpreter had no readline support either so it 
> was just like old times :-)

Windows PowerShell supports very basic Linux commands and has a command 
history. I'm always typing "ls" for a directory listing when I'm on a 
Windows machine. The regular command line would throw a DOS fit. 
PowerShell lets me get away with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands

I prefer working on my vintage 2006 Black MacBook. Alas, the CPU fan is 
dying and MacBook shuts down after 15 minutes. I'm surprised at how well 
I was able to set up a equivalent programming environment on Windows.

Chris Reimer

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#74923 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromCHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-21 08:37 -0700
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<dcf2aa33-55ad-4ba9-89c8-d49615a0feb8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#74857
On Sunday, July 20, 2014 9:53:02 AM UTC+8, C.D. Reimer wrote:
> On 7/19/2014 6:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> > I haven't used Python on Windows much, but when I did use it, I found 
> 
> > the standard Python interactive interpreter running under cmd.exe to 
> 
> > be bare- bones but usable for testing short snippets. If I recall 
> 
> > correctly, it is missing any sort of command history or line editing 
> 
> > other than backspace, which I guess it would have been painful to use 
> 
> > for extensive interactive work, but when I started using Python on 
> 
> > Linux the interactive interpreter had no readline support either so it 
> 
> > was just like old times :-)
> 
> 
> 
> Windows PowerShell supports very basic Linux commands and has a command 
> 
> history. I'm always typing "ls" for a directory listing when I'm on a 
> 
> Windows machine. The regular command line would throw a DOS fit. 
> 
> PowerShell lets me get away with it.
> 
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer working on my vintage 2006 Black MacBook. Alas, the CPU fan is 
> 
> dying and MacBook shuts down after 15 minutes. I'm surprised at how well 
> 
> I was able to set up a equivalent programming environment on Windows.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Reimer

Well, Python could be used as a 
scripting  language for routine jobs
in various Oses. 

But Python has been designed to be 
a cross-platform high-level general 
purpose programming  language from
the birth.

One can be sure that the investing in most of the programming concepts and skills  in Python 2.XX is still valid in Python 3.XX. 

Forget those non-investing imitators'  flase spamming claims.



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#74867 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromTim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-20 14:18 +1000
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12087.1405829943.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74850

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 20 July 2014 11:53, C.D. Reimer <chris@cdreimer.com> wrote:

>
> On 7/19/2014 6:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> I haven't used Python on Windows much, but when I did use it, I found the
>> standard Python interactive interpreter running under cmd.exe to be bare-
>> bones but usable for testing short snippets. If I recall correctly, it is
>> missing any sort of command history or line editing other than backspace,
>> which I guess it would have been painful to use for extensive interactive
>> work, but when I started using Python on Linux the interactive interpreter
>> had no readline support either so it was just like old times :-)
>>
>
> Windows PowerShell supports very basic Linux commands and has a command
> history. I'm always typing "ls" for a directory listing when I'm on a
> Windows machine. The regular command line would throw a DOS fit. PowerShell
> lets me get away with it.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_
> of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands
>
> I prefer working on my vintage 2006 Black MacBook. Alas, the CPU fan is
> dying and MacBook shuts down after 15 minutes. I'm surprised at how well I
> was able to set up a equivalent programming environment on Windows.


I advise anyone who works cross-platform to install MSYS on their Windows
boxes (for the simplest, most consistent behaviour ignore rxvt and just
launch bash -l - i directly). Or use cygwin if you prefer.

Tim Delaney

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#74837 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromTim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-20 07:50 +1000
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12063.1405806613.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74796

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 20 July 2014 04:08, C.D. Reimer <chris@cdreimer.com> wrote:

> On 7/19/2014 12:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> Earlier, I mentioned a considerable number of IDEs which are available
>> for Python, including:
>>
>
> I prefer to use Notepad++ (Windows) and TextWrangler (Mac). Text editors
> with code highlighting can get the job done as well, especially if the
> project is modest and doesn't require version control.
>

IMO there is no project so modest that it doesn't require version control.
Especially since version control is as simple as:

cd project
hg init
hg add
hg commit

FWIW I also don't find a need for an IDE for Python - I'm quite happy using
EditPlus (which I preferred enough to other alternatives on Windows to pay
for many years ago).

Tim Delaney

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#74844 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-20 09:19 +1000
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12069.1405811976.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74796
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 7:50 AM, Tim Delaney
<timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMO there is no project so modest that it doesn't require version control.
> Especially since version control is as simple as:
>
> cd project
> hg init
> hg add
> hg commit

That said, though, there are some projects so modest they don't
require dedicated repositories. I have a repo called "shed" - it's a
collection of random tools that I've put together, no more logical
grouping exists. Generally each one is a single file, although I have
a couple of related ones in there. (Code at
https://github.com/Rosuav/shed if anyone's curious.) If I have an idea
for a program that doesn't really merit a full repo, I'll just save it
into shed. Keeps the "where did I put that, what did I call that" to a
minimum :)

ChrisA

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#74846 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromTim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-20 10:41 +1000
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12071.1405816894.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74796

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 20 July 2014 09:19, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 7:50 AM, Tim Delaney
> <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> wrote:
> > IMO there is no project so modest that it doesn't require version
> control.
> > Especially since version control is as simple as:
> >
> > cd project
> > hg init
> > hg add
> > hg commit
>
> That said, though, there are some projects so modest they don't
> require dedicated repositories. I have a repo called "shed" - it's a
> collection of random tools that I've put together, no more logical
> grouping exists.


Agreed. I have a "utils" one - but I do like "shed" and think I'm going to
rename :)

The main thing is that versioning should be automatic now - it's almost
free, and the benefits are huge because even trivial scripts end up
evolving.

Tim Delaney

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#74851 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

From"C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com>
Date2014-07-19 18:24 -0700
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12075.1405819502.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74796
On 7/19/2014 5:41 PM, Tim Delaney wrote:
> The main thing is that versioning should be automatic now - it's 
> almost free, and the benefits are huge because even trivial scripts 
> end up evolving.

I keep my modest Python scripts in a Dropbox directory and run a weekly 
Python script to zip up the Dropbox directory for safekeeping on the 
home file server and Microsoft OneDrive. If I really need a recent copy 
of a script, Time Machine on the Mac should have a copy from the Drop 
Box folder.

The only time I use version control is when I have a big project with 
many moving parts and/or I'm publishing software for other people to use.

Chris Reimer

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#74858 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromTP <wingusr@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-19 19:03 -0700
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12080.1405821829.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74796

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 12:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:

> For Python users, the IDEs from
> Wingware and Activestate are notable:
>
>     https://wingware.com/
>     http://komodoide.com/
>

I would say that since PyCharm (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/) now has
a free Community Edition it is an even more notable IDE as the above two
programs cost $.

And as a Windows user, for version control I really like TortoiseHg (
http://tortoisehg.bitbucket.org/) for Mercurial. Likewise I tend to use
TortoiseSVN and TortoiseGit rather than the command line. PyCharm even has
support for those but I still like right-clicking on folders in Windows
Explorer and activating various hg commands from the popup menu. Especially
since not every program I write is written in Python :)

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#74862 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

From"C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com>
Date2014-07-19 20:10 -0700
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12082.1405825884.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74796
On 7/19/2014 7:03 PM, TP wrote:
> I would say that since PyCharm (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/) 
> now has a free Community Edition it is an even more notable IDE as the 
> above two programs cost $.

PyCharm look really nice as an IDE. Thanks for the heads up.

Chris Reimer

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#75462 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromWolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net>
Date2014-08-01 13:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<20140801131035.f672ac56af3aa4eda5d36dcd@gmx.net>
In reply to#74796
> Windows and OS X users, sadly, miss out on the power of an integrated 
> package manager.

Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".

Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
"installers" to use it.
 
Sincerely,

Wolfgang

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#75463 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2014-08-01 21:22 +1000
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12507.1406892155.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#75462
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> wrote:
> Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
> TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
> bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
>
> Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
> entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
> "installers" to use it.

You mean everyone has to reinvent the proverbial wheel AND worry about
dependency collisions? Yeah, that's a heavenly thought.

ChrisA

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#75465 — Re: Python and IDEs

FromMarko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net>
Date2014-08-01 15:19 +0300
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs
Message-ID<87oaw4z9jr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
In reply to#75463
Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>:

> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
>> entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
>> "installers" to use it.
>
> You mean everyone has to reinvent the proverbial wheel AND worry about
> dependency collisions? Yeah, that's a heavenly thought.

I'm guessing he's referring to the modern fad of application sandboxing.
Each application is installed with everything it needs on top of the
basic OS.

If you have ten Python apps, you'll have ten Python installations. Also
the applications have no way to communicate outside their respective
sandboxes. They can't access each others' files, for example.

Personally, I tend to stick to this package management strategy: install
whatever is available with yum and write the rest yourself.


Marko

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#75466 — Re: Python and IDEs

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2014-08-01 22:30 +1000
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs
Message-ID<mailman.12508.1406896234.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#75465
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:19 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
> I'm guessing he's referring to the modern fad of application sandboxing.
> Each application is installed with everything it needs on top of the
> basic OS.
>
> If you have ten Python apps, you'll have ten Python installations. Also
> the applications have no way to communicate outside their respective
> sandboxes. They can't access each others' files, for example.
>
> Personally, I tend to stick to this package management strategy: install
> whatever is available with yum and write the rest yourself.

Only if by "write" you also include compiling someone else's program
from source. I follow that strategy (except that I use apt rather than
yum), and there's a fair bit that I build from source but don't write.
Granted, that's partly because Debian Stable doesn't include a
sufficiently recent Python, for instance, but still, there's a lot to
be said for getting libraries (including dev versions) from the repo
and building some applications yourself.

ChrisA

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#75470 — Re: Python and IDEs

FromSteven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>
Date2014-08-01 23:10 +1000
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs
Message-ID<53db91a8$0$30002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#75465
Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>:
> 
>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> wrote:
>>> Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
>>> entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
>>> "installers" to use it.
>>
>> You mean everyone has to reinvent the proverbial wheel AND worry about
>> dependency collisions? Yeah, that's a heavenly thought.
> 
> I'm guessing he's referring to the modern fad of application sandboxing.
> Each application is installed with everything it needs on top of the
> basic OS.
>
> If you have ten Python apps, you'll have ten Python installations. 

A horrible thought. Hard drives are cheap, but not that cheap that one can
trivially afford to turn every 1K Python script into a 25,000K install
(based on the size of the Windows binary-only installer). On my system, the
obvious application directories (I may have missed some) total 460MB:

[steve@ando ~]$ du -hc /bin/ /sbin/ /usr/bin/ /usr/local/bin/
7.9M    /bin/
38M     /sbin/
76K     /usr/bin/mergetools
380M    /usr/bin/
35M     /usr/local/bin/
460M    total

If those apps were an average of 10,000 times larger, that makes 4.6TB,
significantly larger than an entry level 1TB hard drive. It also makes
rescue DVDs and boot USB sticks impractical, to say nothing of the expense
of downloading upgrades. I can download (say) an entire Linux Mint system
in an hour or three, which is significantly better than the two years it
would take to download if everything was 10,000 times bigger.

But even more problematic... if there's a security vulnerability in Python,
would you rather wait for the vulnerability to patched once in a central
Python binary, or individually in each and every single Python script that
comes with a bundled Python binary?


> Also 
> the applications have no way to communicate outside their respective
> sandboxes. They can't access each others' files, for example.

If two applications can both write to the file system, they can communicate.
If they have sufficient file system privileges, they can even reach into
each other's bundle and modify anything they want.


> Personally, I tend to stick to this package management strategy: install
> whatever is available with yum and write the rest yourself.

+0.8 on that. Sometimes I install software outside of the package management
system, but I always feel a tad dirty when I do so :-)



-- 
Steven

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#75473 — Re: Python and IDEs

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2014-08-01 23:30 +1000
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs
Message-ID<mailman.12510.1406899806.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#75470
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing he's referring to the modern fad of application sandboxing.
>> Each application is installed with everything it needs on top of the
>> basic OS.
>>
>> If you have ten Python apps, you'll have ten Python installations.
>
> A horrible thought. Hard drives are cheap, but not that cheap that one can
> trivially afford to turn every 1K Python script into a 25,000K install
> (based on the size of the Windows binary-only installer). On my system, the
> obvious application directories (I may have missed some) total 460MB:
>
> [steve@ando ~]$ du -hc /bin/ /sbin/ /usr/bin/ /usr/local/bin/
> 7.9M    /bin/
> 38M     /sbin/
> 76K     /usr/bin/mergetools
> 380M    /usr/bin/
> 35M     /usr/local/bin/
> 460M    total
>
> If those apps were an average of 10,000 times larger, that makes 4.6TB,
> significantly larger than an entry level 1TB hard drive. It also makes
> rescue DVDs and boot USB sticks impractical, to say nothing of the expense
> of downloading upgrades. I can download (say) an entire Linux Mint system
> in an hour or three, which is significantly better than the two years it
> would take to download if everything was 10,000 times bigger.

There is a solution. If all those binaries are marked as read-only,
you could have a file system that stores things based on their hashes,
effectively hardlinking (automatically) all the duplicates. Of course,
that only works if they really are duplicates. If one ships Python
2.7.3 and another ships 2.7.4, there'll be a lot of almost-duplicated
files that technically identical.

> But even more problematic... if there's a security vulnerability in Python,
> would you rather wait for the vulnerability to patched once in a central
> Python binary, or individually in each and every single Python script that
> comes with a bundled Python binary?

This is exactly the problem that sandboxing "fixes", though. As soon
as you upgrade the central Python binary, you risk breaking that
application that depended on the exact version that it shipped with.

Encouraging laziness and sloppy versioning, IMO.

>> Also
>> the applications have no way to communicate outside their respective
>> sandboxes. They can't access each others' files, for example.
>
> If two applications can both write to the file system, they can communicate.
> If they have sufficient file system privileges, they can even reach into
> each other's bundle and modify anything they want.

If you chroot to the sandbox, they shouldn't be able to. (Not to say
there's no such thing as chroot leakage, of course, but they
shouldn't.)

>> Personally, I tend to stick to this package management strategy: install
>> whatever is available with yum and write the rest yourself.
>
> +0.8 on that. Sometimes I install software outside of the package management
> system, but I always feel a tad dirty when I do so :-)

I don't. There's plenty that I've done that way - but only ever
applications, or libraries that completely don't exist in the repos.
I've never installed a newer version of a library than I can get from
repo.

ChrisA

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#75485 — Re: Python and IDEs

FromMarko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net>
Date2014-08-01 18:13 +0300
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs
Message-ID<87zjfonsy2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
In reply to#75470
Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>:

> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> If you have ten Python apps, you'll have ten Python installations. 
>
> A horrible thought. Hard drives are cheap, but not that cheap

Well, iPhones aren't *that* expensive...

>> Also the applications have no way to communicate outside their
>> respective sandboxes. They can't access each others' files, for
>> example.
>
> If two applications can both write to the file system,

They can't. They are sandboxed.

My WP8 phone has Python3 installed. Absolutely useless since it can't
get out of its sandbox (except for Microsoft's cloud drive, I think).


Marko

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#75795 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromWolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net>
Date2014-08-06 14:38 +0200
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<20140806143853.4ae3c37a34f8f9a482d3ce2e@gmx.net>
In reply to#75463
> > Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
> > TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
> > bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
> >
> > Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
> > entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
> > "installers" to use it.
> 
> You mean everyone has to reinvent the proverbial wheel AND worry about
> dependency collisions? Yeah, that's a heavenly thought.

You should get a clue in stead of just fantasizing up assumptions based
on ignorance.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

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#75799 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2014-08-06 22:51 +1000
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12700.1407329511.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#75795
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> wrote:
>> > Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
>> > TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
>> > bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
>> >
>> > Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
>> > entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
>> > "installers" to use it.
>>
>> You mean everyone has to reinvent the proverbial wheel AND worry about
>> dependency collisions? Yeah, that's a heavenly thought.
>
> You should get a clue in stead of just fantasizing up assumptions based
> on ignorance.

I've worked with a number of operating systems, a number of dependency
management systems, and a number of absences of such systems. I stand
by my earlier statements in this thread, and I think I have a fairly
good clue about what does and doesn't work in terms of installers.

There is one way to avoid most of the duplication and still make every
application perfectly self-contained. You simply decree that there are
no dependencies permitted except for the base OS itself and what it
provides. As long as that's a rich enough set of tools, everything can
work (that's what seems to be happening on mobile platforms, for
instance). But it does mean that any unusual dependencies have to be
considered part of the app, and that means duplication.

ChrisA

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#76033 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromWolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net>
Date2014-08-11 11:08 +0200
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<20140811110836.7cf2a4dad3f6d671cc0e73ef@gmx.net>
In reply to#75799
> >> > Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
> >> > TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
> >> > bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
> >> >
> >> > Because on such operating systems, each and every application is
> >> > an entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any
> >> > "packages" or "installers" to use it.
> >>
> >> You mean everyone has to reinvent the proverbial wheel AND worry
> >> about dependency collisions? Yeah, that's a heavenly thought.
> >
> > You should get a clue in stead of just fantasizing up assumptions
> > based on ignorance.
> 
> I've worked with a number of operating systems, a number of dependency
> management systems, and a number of absences of such systems. I stand
> by my earlier statements in this thread, 

Then you seem to have a problem with elementary logical reasoning.

Your above statement (about "re-inventing the wheel AND worrying about
dependency collisions") is totally illogical nonsense.

Just one issue: MacOS application have always been far more compact
(both on disk and in RAM) than comparable Windows or Unix counterparts.
"Despite" the fact that they where GUI applications since MacOS 1.0. No
one has to "re-invent" any more wheels to develop a MacOS X application
than he has to do for a Windows or Linux application. In fact, usually,
there are less wheels to re-invent for MacOS X.

Next: The self-contained nature of applications is obviously exactly
what *eliminates* dependency collisions. 

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

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#75479 — Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

FromNicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com>
Date2014-08-01 15:28 +0100
SubjectRe: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]
Message-ID<mailman.12513.1406903344.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#75462
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
>> TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
>> bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
>>
>> Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
>> entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
>> "installers" to use it.
>
> You mean everyone has to reinvent the proverbial wheel AND worry about
> dependency collisions? Yeah, that's a heavenly thought.

Actually, that's not right.  RiscOS had and OS X has (I'm sure the
others do as well) a concept that is similar to a shared library.  But
the joy of an application bundle is that installing an application
does not scatter its own files all over the file-system, putting
configuration files here, binary resources there, library files
somewhere else, executable files somewhere else again.  The result on
one of these other systems is that uninstalling an application is a
simple matter of deleting the relevant bundle, which contains all of
the resources necessary for that application.  All that remains are
whatever files exist within user directories.

I've worked with both.  Quite honestly, I really wish that other
operating systems had gone down this route. MS didn't possibly to make
it harder to steal software, and Unix...well, *nix has the concept of
the "distribution" that will manage all of this for you.  We all know
the problems that this causes.

N.

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