Path: csiph.com!optima2.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!1.eu.feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: alister Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Gmail eats Python Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:21:30 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 69 Message-ID: References: <201507251634.t6PGYUvo028820@fido.openend.se> <87d1zgyqgb.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <228d9572-6cff-4f89-bd68-e31ecbb8e46a@googlegroups.com> <327a9975-b079-4d44-998d-0d1168ba7a59@googlegroups.com> <87twsrxva6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <2d0388e4-f880-4537-8e18-1d470b2c9620@googlegroups.com> <87pp3fxqn1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: i/OG3EjHvs04xHrpB0XnAg.user.speranza.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Pan/0.139 (Sexual Chocolate; GIT bf56508 git://git.gnome.org/pan2) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:94611 On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 01:50:21 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 2:06:00 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> Rustom Mody : >> >> > Emacs 'tries to be everything' in exactly the same way that a >> > 'general purpose programming language' is too general and by >> > pretending to solve all problems actually solves none (until you hire >> > a programmer). >> >> Emacs isn't too general. It's just right. >> >> > Problem with emacs (culture) is that its aficionados assume that a >> > superb conceptual design trumps technological relevance, >> >> It's relevant to me every day, for business and pleasure. >> >> > [Did you notice that you used the locutions 'M-$', 'M-x'? What sense >> > does this 80s terminology make to an emacs uninitiate in 2015? >> >> They can be initiated in mere seconds to that esoteric knowledge. > > You are being obtuse Marko! > > Yeah that 'M-' is what everyone calls Alt can be conveyed in a few > seconds But there are a hundred completely useless pieces of > comtemporary-to-emacs inconsistency: > - What everyone calls a window, emacs calls a frame - And what emacs > calls a window, everyone calls a pane - What everyone does with C-x > emacs does with C-w (and woe betide if you mix that up) > - What everyone calls head (of a list) emacs calls Car (Toyota?) > > >> > From seeing my 20-year-olf students suffer all this >> >> What do your students suffer from? The beauty of the matter is that >> they can use any editor they like. They don't have to like or use >> emacs. >> >> (In some shops you actually virtually *have* to use Eclipse or Visual >> Studio or the some such thing. That *is* painful.) >> >> > combined with the hopelessness of convincing the emacs folks that we >> > are in 2015, not 1980, >> >> What do you need to convince emacs folks about? Emacs isn't perfect at >> everything, but the emacs developers have kept it admirably up to date. >> It has been following the quirks of Java, git and MS Exchange even if >> it has been an uphill battle. >> >> > I conclude this is a losing battle >> >> What would you like to achieve, exactly? > > Some attitude correction? > That emacs starts its tutorial showing how to use C-p and C-n for what > everyone uses arrows is bad enough. > That the arrow-keys are later found to work quite alright is even worse > and speaks of a ridiculous attitude emacs is a great operating system - the only thing it lacks is a good text editor ;-) -- Home is the place where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in. -- Robert Frost, "The Death of the Hired Man"