Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!rt.uk.eu.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.02; 'python,': 0.02; 'languages,': 0.04; 'assignment': 0.07; 'from:addr:ethan': 0.09; 'from:addr:stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'from:name:ethan furman': 0.09; 'message-id:@stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'works.': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; 'translate': 0.10; 'python': 0.11; 'language,': 0.12; 'language.': 0.14; 'at,': 0.16; 'exist.': 0.16; 'fine;': 0.16; 'fluency': 0.16; 'goal,': 0.16; 'received:gateway13.websitewelcome.com': 0.16; 'folks': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'do.': 0.18; 'obviously': 0.18; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'comparing': 0.24; 'values': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'values.': 0.31; 'probably': 0.32; 'maybe': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'definition': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'are,': 0.36; 'words,': 0.36; 'useful': 0.36; 'behind': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'eventually': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'received:173': 0.61; 'our': 0.64; 'subject:The': 0.64; 'received:69.56': 0.68; 'subjectcharset:utf-8': 0.72; 'foreign': 0.74; 'by.': 0.84; 'irrelevant': 0.84; 'received:69.56.160': 0.84; 'yours': 0.88 Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 12:30:38 -0700 From: Ethan Furman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Python Subject: Re: The =?UTF-8?B?77+9IGRlYmF0ZQ==?= References: <235C4BFA-9770-481A-9FCF-21C3F036769C@gmail.com> <8738gmxgay.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87tx91warf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <85eh05cdjx.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <87ha50hagu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8738gkh42a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8538gkaxr8.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <536c1b2e$0$29965$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <536d8208$0$29980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <536dd9cb$0$29980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <717336ca-387c-4ca4-ba56-7d0f9f083036@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <717336ca-387c-4ca4-ba56-7d0f9f083036@googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator3304.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - python.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - stoneleaf.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 173.12.184.233 X-Exim-ID: 1WjCyl-0003Ow-3e X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([173.12.184.233]) [173.12.184.233]:34040 X-Source-Auth: ethan+stoneleaf.us X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: dG9idWs7dG9idWs7Z2F0b3IzMzA0Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1399751480 news.xs4all.nl 2944 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:42095 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:71267 On 05/10/2014 02:05 AM, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Saturday, May 10, 2014 1:18:27 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> >> Python assignment doesn't copy values. > > Maybe our values differ? Obviously they do. Yours are irrelevant for Python. They could be, and probably are, useful when comparing and contrasting Python with other languages, or maybe when discussing a particular implementation of Python -- but when discussing the *language* of Python, your definition of value doesn't exist. When learning a foreign human language most folks start at, and some stay at, the "think in native language, translate on the fly" mode. And it probably works well enough to get by. But that is not fluency. Fluency is understanding the meaning behind the words, behind the sounds, and eventually being able to *think* in that other language. If that is not your goal, fine; please stop muddying other's understanding of how Python the language works. -- ~Ethan~