Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages,': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'variables': 0.07; 'aliases': 0.09; 'ascii': 0.09; 'explanation': 0.09; 'from:addr:ethan': 0.09; 'from:addr:stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'from:name:ethan furman': 0.09; 'message-id:@stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'objects,': 0.09; 'part,': 0.09; 'variables.': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'language.': 0.14; 'aided': 0.16; 'anybody.': 0.16; 'being,': 0.16; 'callable': 0.16; 'finney': 0.16; 'mug': 0.16; 'objects.': 0.16; 'received:gateway01.websitewelcome.com': 0.16; 'ignore': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'variable': 0.18; 'value.': 0.19; 'not,': 0.20; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; "haven't": 0.24; 'holds': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; "doesn't": 0.30; 'cool': 0.30; 'work.': 0.31; 'really,': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'class': 0.32; 'guess': 0.33; 'reader': 0.33; 'could': 0.34; 'knowledge': 0.35; 'possible.': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'point.': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; "didn't": 0.36; "i'll": 0.36; 'example,': 0.37; 'ben': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'explain': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'called': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'up,': 0.60; 'took': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'term': 0.63; 'kind': 0.63; 'such': 0.63; 'subject:The': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'worth': 0.66; 'beautiful': 0.68; 'realized': 0.68; 'received:69.56': 0.68; 'subjectcharset:utf-8': 0.72; 'special': 0.74; 'lack': 0.78; 'subject:have': 0.80; 'discovered': 0.83; 'newcomer': 0.84; 'art,': 0.91; 'was:': 0.91 Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 14:50:08 -0700 From: Ethan Furman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: The =?UTF-8?B?4oCcZG9lcyBQeXRob24gaGF2ZSB2YXJpYWJsZXM/4oCdIGQ=?= =?UTF-8?B?ZWJhdGU=?= References: <235C4BFA-9770-481A-9FCF-21C3F036769C@gmail.com> <5368681D.8070602@islandtraining.com> <85zjiuea37.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <8738gmxgay.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87tx91warf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <85eh05cdjx.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <87ha50hagu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8738gkh42a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8538gkaxr8.fsf@benfinney.id.au> In-Reply-To: <8538gkaxr8.fsf@benfinney.id.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator3304.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - python.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - stoneleaf.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 173.12.184.233 X-Exim-ID: 1WiWCe-00037V-UH X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([173.12.184.233]) [173.12.184.233]:59992 X-Source-Auth: ethan+stoneleaf.us X-Email-Count: 2 X-Source-Cap: dG9idWs7dG9idWs7Z2F0b3IzMzA0Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1399588645 news.xs4all.nl 2943 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:57828 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:71131 On 05/08/2014 12:14 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > Marko Rauhamaa writes: > >> Point being, shunning the term "variable" is counterproductive. Python >> variables are nothing special and calling them "variables" doesn't >> mislead anybody. > > Okay, that's your point. You haven't backed it up, so I'll ignore it for now. I'll speak up as a data point: When I came to Python my only experience with variables was: it's a box that holds a value. So it took me a while, and a really, really good explanation with beautiful ascii art, to explain to me how Python variables work. The astute reader will notice I still called them variables. Had they been called something else I may have discovered sooner what the difference was, but I don't think it's worth mangling the (English) language. As a newcomer to Python I also didn't know that functions were first class objects, so it was a while before I realized the cool things you could do because of that -- yet we still call them functions, not, for example, callable objects. Python has variables -- they just work more like aliases. (Okay, who wants to make the graphic of a Python object in a mug shot? ;) I guess my point is, calling aliases variables wasn't the misleading part, it was my lack of knowledge that there was more than one kind of variable possible. Such ignorance is only solved by learning different languages, and isn't aided if every language has their own unique terminology. -- ~Ethan~