Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!dedibox.gegeweb.org!gegeweb.eu!nntpfeed.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.010 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'beginner': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'extent': 0.07; '(good': 0.09; 'beginners': 0.09; 'implied,': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'language.': 0.14; 'finney': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'replacing': 0.19; 'programming': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'header:X -Complaints-To:1': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.30; 'primarily': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'concern': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'worked': 0.33; 'community': 0.33; 'but': 0.35; 'false': 0.36; 'ben': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'term': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'subject:The': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'skip:\xe2 10': 0.65; 'subjectcharset:utf-8': 0.72; 'subject:have': 0.80; 'batchelder': 0.84; 'received:125': 0.84; '\xe2\x80\x9cwe': 0.84; 'suffer': 0.93 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Ben Finney Subject: Re: The =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=9Cdoes?= Python have =?utf-8?Q?variables?= =?utf-8?Q?=3F=E2=80=9D?= debate Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 18:34:21 +1000 References: <235C4BFA-9770-481A-9FCF-21C3F036769C@gmail.com> <5368681D.8070602@islandtraining.com> <85zjiuea37.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <8738gmxgay.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87tx91warf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <85eh05cdjx.fsf@benfinney.id.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: jigong.madmonks.org X-Public-Key-ID: 0xAC128405 X-Public-Key-Fingerprint: 517C F14B B2F3 98B0 CB35 4855 B8B2 4C06 AC12 8405 X-Public-Key-URL: http://www.benfinney.id.au/contact/bfinney-pubkey.asc X-Post-From: Ben Finney User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:3pQ0Kn3z/TMqszWq4BCti7nxzPg= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1399538080 news.xs4all.nl 2868 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:57461 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:71087 Ned Batchelder writes: > I thought we were concerned with beginners incorrectly thinking Python > worked like C, but this [pseudocode] is nothing like C. I'm not concerned about where these misconceptions come from, whether C or any other language. The concern is that the term “variable”'s existing baggage in the programming community encourages *false inferences* that a beginner doesn't even realise they're drawing. By discouraging use of that term and replacing it with “name binding” or “reference”, a more accurate model is implied, to the extent that its existing baggage encourages significantly fewer false inferences. (good sigmonster, have a cookie) -- \ “We suffer primarily not from our vices or our weaknesses, but | `\ from our illusions.” —Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, 1914–2004 | _o__) | Ben Finney