Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!rt.uk.eu.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.005 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'class,': 0.07; 'variables': 0.07; 'variables.': 0.09; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'language,': 0.12; 'language.': 0.14; 'function?': 0.16; 'personally,': 0.16; 'semantics': 0.16; 'silly': 0.16; 'variables,': 0.16; 'variables;': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'discussion': 0.18; 'variable': 0.18; 'wed,': 0.18; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; "aren't": 0.24; 'certainly': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'values': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'point': 0.28; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'especially': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'int,': 0.31; 'there.': 0.32; "we're": 0.32; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'useful': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'rather': 0.38; 'name': 0.63; 'subject:The': 0.64; '(that': 0.65; 'between': 0.67; 'subjectcharset:utf-8': 0.72; 'subject:have': 0.80; 'batchelder': 0.84; 'differences': 0.93; 'hand,': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Vg6wY0oydSTceUo50z0O7dV04EzASGokfYE7eesH47U=; b=sk4nHGJLUn48eiv/r/GWpAzZMfFDfk+KCkkC7/nNHr32z/fvVzOaKY92fE4JpdLMry 7wu/KrTY68Ozo70B/k07DpIP2nKicCCTdLhQJbKIHz+T34NBDmNc5XRnuXJfPNsyaMoO SuBIcQQQqV3N49fXm0GA1ZrXuvr0urknGwJAWM8Dv6VYibqautEP904TbWx8ab2RYijv t6B6Q28S/I4Ih1m9cMnkmMXGY30JkjZl0Pv0ByhRosx+oGGyLjsYybR9gv10UkukStB2 wpfwdNgTKGb6+VzUKNuPh8HiMfpT8erga0NycIjO41JPDiAMRpvt44JZzvcwhVDVLlO/ o53Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.155.7 with SMTP id vs7mr20426884pab.42.1399477696058; Wed, 07 May 2014 08:48:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8738gmxgay.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> References: <235C4BFA-9770-481A-9FCF-21C3F036769C@gmail.com> <5368681D.8070602@islandtraining.com> <85zjiuea37.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <8738gmxgay.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 11:48:15 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFRoZSDigJxkb2VzIFB5dGhvbiBoYXZlIHZhcmlhYmxlcz/igJ0gZGViYXRl?= From: Jerry Hill To: Marko Rauhamaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: "python-list \(General\)" X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1399477705 news.xs4all.nl 2843 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:55498 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:71036 On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:18 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Ned Batchelder : > >> Why is "variable" sacrosanct and can only be used to describe C >> semantics, but we're OK reusing class, int, and function? > > The Python language specification calls them variables; the terminology > discussion should end there. Personally, I found the idea that a python variable is a name + value pairing to be useful when learning the language, especially when I was struggling with the calling semantics (that is, the differences between call-by-value, call-by-reference, and call-by-object). I think it's rather silly for someone to insist that python doesn't have variables. On the other hand, I think it can be useful to point out that python variable aren't like C variables, and that thinking of python variables as having two parts -- names and values -- really can help people who are struggling to learn the language. I know it certainly helped me. -- Jerry