Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 16:58:21 +1100 Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <64a6599c-fae1-469d-bcee-875165b3cc7d@googlegroups.com> <56d294f8$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <56d5c4b6$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87y4a2ax8g.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <56d64730$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87egbtbfmy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de n2V8pAlPwPc58XLf+o+pRgzHFdYxQk0T1NihXfycS2qA== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.006 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'anyway.': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'json': 0.05; 'bash': 0.07; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.09; '(instead': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'wed,': 0.15; '2016': 0.16; 'awk': 0.16; 'emits': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'something.': 0.16; 'structure.': 0.16; 'subject:GUI': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'string': 0.17; 'typing': 0.18; 'shell': 0.18; '>>>': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'parameter': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'import': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'external': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'arguments,': 0.29; 'command- line': 0.29; 'i/o': 0.29; 'print': 0.30; 'maybe': 0.33; 'usually': 0.33; "d'aprano": 0.33; 'doubt': 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'similar': 0.33; 'that,': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'could': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'instead': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'really': 0.37; 'received:209.85.213': 0.37; "won't": 0.38; 'received:209': 0.38; 'format': 0.39; 'where': 0.40; 'entire': 0.61; 'default': 0.61; 'programs': 0.62; 'skip:n 10': 0.62; 'different': 0.63; 'mar': 0.65; 'records,': 0.67; 'talking': 0.67; 'teach': 0.70; 'hand': 0.82; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'commands.': 0.84; 'framing': 0.84; 'subject:good': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=Q14MocoTRZjTTchLmWXBQIt2AIEd15gX9Pzk56rT9Ug=; b=BAtJAkQXrusdqYMBD3l4cYrVetjXtUeZT2EB3meSWqrGq5odWZlTYKxUAcVhSE04DW igi8PNgnt+Fnqpv7lyTFfm5XQDVpWdLiqCj3bYAej0oUecLfBoF1HBnEvPWh+KSb0zxl ENTwrmCPab3GO4Mkcc6iuii05byHHXaWMMPTMd5s9sXTdN5L1juJVxvUzNGhM7Mz3A0r gDdpNYwpkOKuURBDocdUIO+UbL/OlhLtyOO01G7XhMJSjCOoAEuoW6DWj6Z5ua0aW6Xk VTMOMx6nfvfcJkS9LsbIn01iCC/mUWKkhUPQL0OveoFb8h6+3ZF//RkkKV+t16f5+qH1 1IYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=Q14MocoTRZjTTchLmWXBQIt2AIEd15gX9Pzk56rT9Ug=; b=efFv3SF2QcotB8l6iMFtAmDw22Z+2t+2kyiW2gTyRIrxfzgBDD7m6gBlgaXKvvI+5x m8q9iiPYoHKXjx937UdDURWSyOKskkq3YpgHrPVwzaYbQ4AeD/0WEt6FVr5gchxkmjd8 2kjS9AHx8MUyrhn/rkNiDoue7WMMeIiU6lFfwYzNYqkvzYKUd+rOO9KfvQt1wRpn9/kV 733V+kB8UPkErV+3wp+cnZLb8UIFH6uRWoVKTAT3JJhulgHs7xVmmwpIrbZ4XGzb7wqc lrx5gtP+H9mh18eDYmC7Jc6ieZMdwiPIZezlX5cn0j59zOh6EpPaJNr0Rr7K9Crctf0A 7vbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJLI4xE/yWTed8jGtGqL48LCcAgO3+l/4EytqONVDmyQpi3GMdFBoXxIpicaF1JQY3ZYTYAPBAAi/okp5A== X-Received: by 10.50.137.35 with SMTP id qf3mr3013891igb.92.1456898302280; Tue, 01 Mar 2016 21:58:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87egbtbfmy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:103840 On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Steven D'Aprano : > >> On Wed, 2 Mar 2016 05:06 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >>> A python shell would need a well-thought-out default import plus a >>> way to string together external commands. Maybe JSON or similar could >>> be the standard I/O framing format (instead of SPC-separated fields >>> and LF-separated records). >> >> You really want to be typing JSON by hand instead of space-separated >> fields/arguments? >> >> # Python using JSON >> ls('["-l", "foo/bar", "spam/ham"]') >> >> # bash >> ls -l foo/bar spam/ham >> >> Bugger that for a game of soldiers. > > I was talking about JSON for the standard I/O, not the command-line > arguments, as in: > > ps -ef | awk '/httpd/ { print $2 }' > > where "ps -ef" emits SPC-separated fields and LF-separated records, and > awk parses and processes them. If you want to change that, you have to change the entire ecosystem, not just the shell. You would have to teach every single program to use a different structure. A lot of programs already do support NUL-separation - usually with a -z parameter or something. But you won't be able to magically get them all to use JSON. And I doubt it would be advantageous anyway. ChrisA