Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder2.enfer-du-nord.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.022 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'completeness': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'mess': 0.07; 'correct.': 0.09; 'incompatible': 0.09; 'is;': 0.16; 'subset': 0.16; '\xa0this': 0.16; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'programming': 0.20; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.21; 'received:209.85.210.174': 0.21; 'received:mail- iy0-f174.google.com': 0.21; "doesn't": 0.22; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.26; 'testing': 0.26; 'fact': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.29; 'languages.': 0.29; "skip:' 10": 0.29; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.29; 'does': 0.32; "isn't": 0.33; 'there': 0.33; 'agree': 0.33; 'anything': 0.34; 'running': 0.34; 'closely': 0.34; 'problem.': 0.35; 'two': 0.36; 'but': 0.37; 'shows': 0.37; 'received:google.com': 0.37; 'received:209.85': 0.38; 'cases,': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'think': 0.38; 'received:209': 0.39; 'cannot': 0.39; 'put': 0.40; 'huge': 0.61; 'more': 0.61; 'life': 0.63; 'verification': 0.78; '2012,': 0.84; 'adjunct': 0.84; 'expressive': 0.84; 'together,': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DHSnepxm43yvRBX/C4/7g6eS/i9cO7o5oafVQBmJhtI=; b=d4UYOB+LZ2WDn90zjVW5QCLHYi+lal9EbbYZBKNHcuwYtauqgiL024btbxutNeK0ly 8j0IyC8gqvz12k1+JYvn0K4NzWLbXW2tEydy1aFTYaemNgVRZjFB9Nalazoi4/khYq6S x11lnrbSwEAv4Rm+tOzRpGWX22vSF2Vktb1MFVkiUWzLwA7XgQZlrFyRQCaZKuBCQMWB xMSIfjG2kjBY242TAN9ozneEZ7d5NVWEj8xrFhIkRWazqKBiFl4EzezSLChbzWf9o1nA Gh3E6oNj8v5AfnZlowFvJkuRMaIyFT2m2RvAewk79B7hJNka8vOdI3uitu7IYWbSV+V/ P5mQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9c7ce4fd-9530-4c34-a88e-446bab7c31ab@sv8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> References: <4f612b19$0$1379$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it> <6af70db0-dc4a-48ee-9ee2-1a934846d5f2@r2g2000pbs.googlegroups.com> <32b8c4ae-2509-43df-abf0-0fb308be398f@oq7g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> <4f6ae931$0$29883$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <4f6b64f9$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <94d35431-0d4f-44d8-85fb-93671829a554@m10g2000pbk.googlegroups.com> <9c7ce4fd-9530-4c34-a88e-446bab7c31ab@sv8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:20:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Python is readable From: Nathan Rice To: rusi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: python-list@python.org X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1332476445 news.xs4all.nl 6978 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:55534 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:22059 >> Do you think we'll always have a huge number of incompatible >> programming languages? =A0I agree with you that it's a fact of life in >> 2012, but will it be a fact of life in 2062? > > It will be a fact of life wherever Godels theorem is; which put > simplistically is: consistency and completeness cannot coexist. =A0This > is the 'logic-generator' for the mess in programming languages. > Put in more general terms: > Completeness is an 'adding' process > Consistency is a 'subtracting' process > Running the two together, convergence is hopeless. This isn't exactly correct. The incompleteness theorem basically shows that in a sufficiently expressive system, there are statements in the system that cannot be proven given the language of that system. We live with this already given the fact that the incompleteness theorem is closely related to Turing's halting problem. That doesn't indicate anything about the convergence of programming languages. It does say that we will need some form of unit testing or restricted subset simulation system as an adjunct to formal verification in most cases, until the end of time.