Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Virgil Stokes Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 12:26:24 +0100 Lines: 56 Message-ID: References: <64a6599c-fae1-469d-bcee-875165b3cc7d@googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de Zpu2ubP/1xb3nKu6Bbw8EANzrU6r/gkdC/gFb9nHsNLg== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'needed,': 0.05; ':-(': 0.07; 'wrapper': 0.07; 'api': 0.09; 'beginners': 0.09; 'ide': 0.09; 'stating': 0.09; 'underlying': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'python.': 0.11; ':-)': 0.12; '(at': 0.13; 'result.': 0.15; '2016': 0.16; 'dependent.': 0.16; 'editor,': 0.16; 'ides': 0.16; 'inputs': 0.16; 'learnt': 0.16; 'measurement': 0.16; 'qtdesigner': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'subject:GUI': 0.16; 'surprising': 0.16; 'vb.net': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'numerical': 0.18; 'switched': 0.18; 'gui': 0.18; 'project,': 0.18; 'thanks.': 0.18; 'language': 0.19; '>>>': 0.20; 'builder': 0.22; 'converted': 0.22; 'made.': 0.22; 'trying': 0.22; 'seems': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.24; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'command': 0.26; '(which': 0.26; 'connected': 0.27; 'points': 0.27; '(e.g.': 0.27; 'wonder': 0.27; 'least': 0.27; 'went': 0.28; '---': 0.28; 'pyqt,': 0.29; 'received:se': 0.29; 'code': 0.30; 'probably': 0.31; 'everyone': 0.31; 'compiled': 0.32; 'point': 0.33; 'common': 0.33; 'usually': 0.33; 'impression': 0.33; 'limitations': 0.33; 'languages': 0.34; 'previous': 0.34; 'skip:d 20': 0.34; 'quite': 0.35; "isn't": 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'project': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'visual': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'really': 0.37; 'agree': 0.37; 'expect': 0.37; 'thanks': 0.37; 'starting': 0.37; 'things': 0.38; 'wrong': 0.38; 'several': 0.38; 'test': 0.39; 'sure': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'rather': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'still': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'software': 0.40; 'hope': 0.61; 'email addr:gmail.com': 0.62; 'show': 0.62; 'back': 0.62; 'today,': 0.62; 'making': 0.62; 'saturday,': 0.63; 'to,': 0.63; 'today': 0.65; 'here': 0.66; 'email,': 0.69; 'yourself': 0.73; '1980s': 0.84; 'clearly.': 0.84; 'comparable': 0.84; 'fast,': 0.84; 'me;': 0.84; 'pyqt.': 0.84; 'received:213.150': 0.84; 'subject:good': 0.84; 'migrating': 0.91; 'good,': 0.93 X-SENDER-IP: [213.112.59.41] X-LISTENER: [smtp.bredband.net] X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A2CVAQDe2NJW/yk7cNUNURkBAQEBDwEBAoNcbbxSGYJEgzYCgVwQAQEBAQEBAYVNAQEBAyMVQBELGAICBRYLAgIJAwIBAgEPNhMGAgEBF4dvA685Z4lcDYQ9AQEBBwIBHXuFF4Q6gjqBSxEBgx6BOgWXDIVZhhWDUoREiFKHBodEN4IuGYFJaQGHBIEyAQEB X-IPAS-Result: A2CVAQDe2NJW/yk7cNUNURkBAQEBDwEBAoNcbbxSGYJEgzYCgVwQAQEBAQEBAYVNAQEBAyMVQBELGAICBRYLAgIJAwIBAgEPNhMGAgEBF4dvA685Z4lcDYQ9AQEBBwIBHXuFF4Q6gjqBSxEBgx6BOgWXDIVZhhWDUoREiFKHBodEN4IuGYFJaQGHBIEyAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.22,514,1449529200"; d="scan'208";a="579520195" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21rc2 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:103625 On 2016-Feb-27 19:13, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, 27 February 2016 18:08:36 UTC+2, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote: >> On 27.02.2016 12:18, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: >>> Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some less well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks. >> As of today, there's no Python GUI builder comparable to VB 6. >> > Thanks for stating this clearly. Everyone here has been trying to show me various ways to do the kind of things I will want to, but nobody clearly admits the limitations I will have to accept if I start with Python. > > I am starting to wonder if VB.net would be a better solution for the time being. I have learnt enough VB.net to manage my work but it is bloated and Microsoft dependent. > >> There are some like QtDesigner or wxGlade, but they either don't >> generate Python code directly or they can only be used if you know the >> underlying toolkit good enough to create the GUI yourself. You may try >> out some, but I can almost guarantee you that you will come to the same >> result. >> If you want a GUI, create it yourself using either wxPython or PyQt. > I will check it. I got the impression that you can create a GUI but that has to be converted to Python, and then you need a wrapper to put these forms in, and then they can be compiled or converted to *.exe with py2exe. Not a good way for development/debugging. > >> For engineering applications that's probably the weakest point that >> Python has. >> It's holding back a lot of people... >> >> Well, for most measurement or control software a GUI is not really >> needed, but still people want it. >> > In the 1980s everyone was happy with inputs from the command line on a line editor, but today people expect GUIs with graphics and often even animations. > > It is surprising that a language which seems very popular does not have GUI development infrastructure in place these many years after it got into common use. > >> Regards, >> >> Dietmar I agree (at least largely) with the author of this email, in response to Dietmar. I have been working with Python for several years and often a GUI is needed, not by me; but, for users of my software where my target is usually numerical and image processing with a "don't make me think too much" GUI. I have mainly used wxPython (which is rather good, with good support); but, I find it rather awkward in practice and making an *.exe for users that includes wxPython is often a tedious process (at least from my own experiences). Perhaps my skills with wxPython and its API are lacking :-( . After re-reading some of the postings that are connected to GUI problems in the python-list, wxPython-users, and PyQT, it seems to me that an "improved IDLE" for Python might have helped to solve some of their problems. I am quite sure such a development would be well received by Python beginners and those migrating to Python from other languages (e.g. VB). While working on my first wxPython GUI project, I actually switched to VB to test my GUI design and to create an *.exe for the project --- this went rather fast, considering that I had no previous experience with VB. Only afterwards, did I return to wxPython, for implementation in Python 2.7, which took much longer with extensive refactoring. And Dietmar, please don't take this the wrong way, I also agree with some of the points that you have made. And I do like wxPython :-)