Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'static': 0.04; 'tree': 0.05; 'debugging': 0.07; 'element': 0.07; 'see.': 0.07; 'string': 0.09; 'counting': 0.09; 'lst': 0.09; 'lst)': 0.09; 'main()': 0.09; 'newline': 0.09; 'separating': 0.09; 'translator': 0.09; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.11; 'assume': 0.14; 'already,': 0.16; 'attempt.': 0.16; 'braces,': 0.16; 'exclamation': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'non-trivial': 0.16; 'notation': 0.16; 'pairs': 0.16; 'pairs,': 0.16; 'programmer,': 0.16; 'semicolon': 0.16; 'subject:unicode': 0.16; 'unfair': 0.16; 'elements': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'code.': 0.18; 'version.': 0.19; 'written': 0.21; 'code,': 0.22; 'input': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'adds': 0.24; 'alternate': 0.24; 'char': 0.24; 'lets': 0.24; "haven't": 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'function': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'skip:( 20': 0.30; 'that.': 0.31; 'anonymous': 0.31; 'another.': 0.31; 'assumes': 0.31; 'easy,': 0.31; 'piece': 0.31; 'trivial': 0.31; 'txt': 0.31; 'void': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'figure': 0.32; 'supposed': 0.32; 'interface': 0.32; 'another': 0.32; 'agree': 0.35; 'display': 0.35; 'knows': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'case,': 0.35; 'equal': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'c++': 0.36; 'doubt': 0.36; 'scheme': 0.36; 'doing': 0.36; "i'll": 0.36; 'example,': 0.37; 'bringing': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'little': 0.38; 'short': 0.38; 'explain': 0.39; 'aside': 0.39; 'structure': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'ian': 0.60; 'course': 0.61; "you'll": 0.62; "you've": 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'total': 0.65; 'here': 0.66; 'line,': 0.68; 'lose': 0.68; 'cut': 0.74; '(let': 0.84; 'can:': 0.84; 'client-side': 0.84; 'score:': 0.84; 'ratio': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=pyQPNvmu06lVgBtf0xB0QlImS94eiSA3xi7yo2/ZCCM=; b=c+ZVGc5GCpEDgod/Ka7rtq7OpqCRPF81SE6yQ2hPDC4e9AnAF9EzujsVIcpcC9pC8L 4kfOZd1s013Ie2fMi4whvBLId2jXc6UM/xgGHKKBuCA6kNrJWV29bY71IbRV6lJtatfo XfLm2cp5U4c5jtac0yMZq6MhY96xC01u2/Ed64R88NQfmkWhxyJvny9zOdu7EG8+o63H iP7ljVXDaJOdflYeQ8wfJiF6Nph+fxVojQUP9FmXfQop/6iS+eURv5WZn1GIpmyGUdyG Hl6ikvz2lW3Bmg5wJkcnKl2JZCAI6ytf4Y/HTcrDpEQf9/pI4pkTRVX6siDcvpxhyhc0 uOLQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.129.133 with SMTP id nw5mr30261814pab.98.1396348747105; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 03:39:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5331D902.3030902@gmail.com> <53321819$0$29994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <53393BA4.2080305@rece.vub.ac.be> <5339C281.7080300@rece.vub.ac.be> <533A768F.5080102@rece.vub.ac.be> <87txadtmwq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 21:39:06 +1100 Subject: Re: unicode as valid naming symbols From: Chris Angelico Cc: Python Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 95 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1396348750 news.xs4all.nl 2910 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:54854 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:69502 On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: > Setting aside the fact that C doesn't have anonymous functions, I'll > approximate it as best I can: > > static int n = 3; > > int f() > { > return n; > } > > int main() > { > n = 7; > return f(); > } > > C: 10 > Scheme: 20 And the less trivial the example, the more difference you'll see. This is Scheme inside LilyPond, a little translator that lets me input lyrics in a tidy way that can then be turned into something that works well with both MIDI Karaoke and printed score: #(define (bang2slashn lst) ( cond ((null? lst) 0) (else (begin (if (equal? (ly:music-property (car lst) 'name) 'LyricEvent) (let ((txt (ly:music-property (car lst) 'text))) (if (equal? (string-ref txt 0) #\!) (begin ; Debugging display ; (display (ly:music-property (car lst) 'name)) (display " - ") (display txt) (newline) ; Prepend a newline instead of the exclamation mark - works for both MIDI Karaoke and page layout (ly:music-set-property! (car lst) 'text (string-append "\n" (substring txt 1 (string-length txt)))) )))) (bang2slashn (ly:music-property (car lst) 'elements)) (bang2slashn (cdr lst)) )) )) % Call the above recursive function lyr=#(define-music-function (parser location lyrics) (ly:music?) (bang2slashn (ly:music-property lyrics 'elements)) lyrics ) Now, this was written by a non-Scheme programmer, so it's not going to be optimal code, but I doubt it's going to lose a huge number of parentheses. Not counting the commented-out debugging line, that's 41 pairs of them in a short but non-trivial piece of code. Translating it to C isn't easy, in the same way that it's hard to explain how to do client-side web form validation in Lua; but here's an attempt. It assumes a broadly C-like structure to LilyPond (eg that the elements are passed as a structure; they are a tree already, as you can see by the double-recursive function above), which is of course not the case, but here goes: void bang2slashn(struct element *lst) { while (lst) { if (!strcmp(lst->name, "LyricEvent")) { char *text = music_property(lst, "text"); /* Okay, C doesn't have string manipulation, so I cheat here */ /* If this were C++ or Pike, some notation nearer to the original would work */ if (*text == '!') music_set_property(lst, "text", "\n" + text[1..]); } bang2slashn(lst->elements); lst = lst->next; } } DEFINE_MUSIC_FUNCTION(PARSER_LOCATION_LYRICS, bang2slashn); That's nine pair parens, three braces, and one square. I assume a lot about the supposed C-like interface to LilyPond, but I think anyone who knows both C and Scheme would agree that I haven't been horrendously unfair in the translation. (Though I will accept an alternate implementation of the Scheme version. If you can cut it down to just 26 pair parens, you'll achieve the 2:1 ratio that Ian mentioned. And if you can cut it down to 13 pairs, you've equalled my count.) The only way to have the C figure come up approximately equal is to count a semicolon as if it were a pair of parens - Scheme has an extra set of parens doing the job of separating one function call from another. But that adds only another 5, bringing C up to a total of 18 (plus a few more if I used functions to do my string manipulation, so let's say about 20-25) where Scheme is still at roughly twice that. ChrisA