Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder1.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.019 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.02; 'style.': 0.09; 'missed': 0.12; 'language.': 0.14; 'mostly': 0.14; "'+'": 0.16; 'identifiers': 0.16; 'operation,': 0.16; 'readable': 0.16; 'subject:unicode': 0.16; 'symbols': 0.16; 'user-defined': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'variable': 0.18; 'result.': 0.19; 'skip:p 40': 0.19; 'written': 0.21; '>>>': 0.22; '31,': 0.24; 'tend': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; "haven't": 0.24; 'second': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; 'character': 0.29; 'have,': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'usually': 0.31; 'concise': 0.31; 'operators': 0.31; 'proposing': 0.31; 'symbolic': 0.31; 'languages': 0.32; 'maybe': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'choosing': 0.36; 'scheme': 0.36; 'easily': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'heard': 0.39; 'though,': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'called': 0.40; 'ian': 0.60; "you're": 0.61; 'you.': 0.62; 'name': 0.63; 'skip:n 10': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'granted': 0.65; 'mar': 0.68; 'afaics': 0.84; 'pardon': 0.84; 'supporters.': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AUxzGgBx8cbd2nQoN8HaO3mbQrZf6muWXdAY1fsPjjA=; b=l1MUcioVdcji3WztOkvnwwgT05HjsiP8ZZsuD2WqXgvXQXe5442VEjxHB8k8wPRXKq k0dfRc/3VEcvUpFI+DqmZYj5dixUlLT2CZvq8P3GL44wZHHK+13XbDHZ81J1L1N/yMMo u2naYVdja1FoLXHbae9YO5OTHMf4NywkHgD4hWNmWlgegU9oEGZL4daCC8WBaOC4z2Sp oc7rFtgcLBfFIGsUGEcfg9I3zuPRTzPMc50sZfnQDlNIMCZH0pcQu9Ry1QbmlhN/maUR WPNUflxTTw7rpys2BZdXbAsk7XSnxNvUcNvJK5Wxp99SJ3oDsjurjVadiDRZ6QIWTBE7 9LJw== X-Received: by 10.68.235.6 with SMTP id ui6mr29871432pbc.45.1396343945159; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 02:19:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <533A768F.5080102@rece.vub.ac.be> References: <5331D902.3030902@gmail.com> <53321819$0$29994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <53393BA4.2080305@rece.vub.ac.be> <5339C281.7080300@rece.vub.ac.be> <533A768F.5080102@rece.vub.ac.be> From: Ian Kelly Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 03:18:24 -0600 Subject: Re: unicode as valid naming symbols To: Python Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1396344274 news.xs4all.nl 2972 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:60132 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:69498 On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Antoon Pardon wrote: > On 01-04-14 02:47, Ian Kelly wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Antoon Pardon >> wrote: >>> Second of all I >>> think a good chosen symbolic name can be more readable than a >>> name in a character set you are not familiar with. A good chosen >>> symbol will evoke a meaning with a lot of people. A name in a >>> character set you are not familiar with is just gibberish to >>> you. >> Well, this is the path taken by APL. It has its supporters. It's not >> known for being readable. > > No that is not the path taken by APL. AFAICS identifiers in APL are just > like identifiers in python. The path taken by APL was that there were > a lot more operators available that used non-alphanumeric characters. > > AFICS APL programs tend to be unreadable because they are mostly written > in a very concise style. > > I think this is more the path taken by lisp-like languages where '+' is > a name just like 'alpha' or 'r2d2'. In scheme I can just do the following= . > > (define =E2=88=9A sqrt) > (=E2=88=9A 4) You're still using the symbol as the name of an operation, though, so I see no practical difference from the APL style. The operation just happens to be user-defined rather than built-in. Granted that in Scheme or in Python-with-arbitrary-Unicode-identifiers you could just as easily name a variable =E2=88=9A, but I don't think that is what you are proposing in terms of choosing symbols to evoke meaning. > Which will give me the normal result. Maybe I missed it but I haven't hea= rd > scheme being called an unreadable language. Well, I have, but I think that usually has more to do with an excess of parentheses.