Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.054 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.89; '*S*': 0.00; 'frameworks': 0.05; 'method,': 0.07; 'agree,': 0.09; 'frameworks.': 0.09; 'underlying': 0.09; 'complexity,': 0.16; 'kern': 0.16; 'measures.': 0.16; 'refactoring': 0.16; 'robert,': 0.16; 'simpler,': 0.16; 'suggesting': 0.16; 'tests)': 0.16; 'to:addr:robert.kern': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'code.': 0.20; '+0000': 0.20; 'respective': 0.20; 'to:name:python- list@python.org': 0.20; 'skip:- 40': 0.21; 'fairly': 0.21; 'regardless': 0.21; 'developers.': 0.22; 'interpret': 0.22; 'to:2**1': 0.23; 'thus': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; '(e.g.': 0.27; 'bugs': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.28; 'correct': 0.28; 'lines': 0.28; 'all.': 0.28; 'measure': 0.29; 'date:': 0.29; 'url:mailman': 0.29; 'source': 0.29; "i'm": 0.29; 'framework': 0.30; 'sense': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'point': 0.31; 'url:python': 0.32; 'url:listinfo': 0.32; 'certain': 0.33; 'from:addr:live.com': 0.33; 'problem': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'likely': 0.33; 'recommended': 0.33; 'nov': 0.35; 'path': 0.35; 'robert': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'next': 0.35; 'subject:': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'compare': 0.36; 'email addr:python.org': 0.36; 'method': 0.36; 'thank': 0.36; 'beyond': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'degree': 0.38; 'unit': 0.38; 'from:': 0.38; 'easier': 0.38; 'gives': 0.39; 'instead': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'end': 0.40; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'think': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'personally': 0.61; 'interest': 0.62; 'email name:python-list': 0.62; 'respect': 0.63; 'world': 0.63; 'email addr:gmail.com': 0.63; 'our': 0.65; 'choose': 0.65; 'due': 0.66; 'subject': 0.66; 'believe': 0.69; 'low': 0.83; '(based': 0.84; 'complexity': 0.84; 'eco': 0.84; 'excessive': 0.84; 'terrible': 0.84; 'understand,': 0.84; 'comment.': 0.91; 'relate': 0.91; 'charset:windows-1251': 0.97 X-Originating-IP: [213.130.16.2] X-EIP: [OmXuBwGdaOinlGcE0LGp94F66SRPiwV3] X-Originating-Email: [andriy.kornatskyy@live.com] From: Andriy Kornatskyy To: , "python-list@python.org" Subject: RE: Web Frameworks Excessive Complexity Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 23:22:49 +0300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: , , , , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2012 20:22:49.0749 (UTC) FILETIME=[CF99BC50:01CDC75C] X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 50 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1353443039 news.xs4all.nl 6969 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:41197 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:33654 Robert=2C I respect your point of view and it definitely make sense to me. I personal= ly do not have a problem to understand CC but agree=2C method LoC is easier= to understand. Regardless the path your choose in your next refactoring (b= ased on method CC=2C LoC) it gives your better product. Andriy ---------------------------------------- > To: python-list@python.org > From: robert.kern@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Web Frameworks Excessive Complexity > Date: Tue=2C 20 Nov 2012 20:07:54 +0000 > > On 20/11/2012 19:46=2C Andriy Kornatskyy wrote: > > > > Robert=2C > > > > Thank you for the comment. I do not try relate CC with LOC. Instead poi= nting to excessive complexity=2C something that is beyond recommended thres= hold=2C a subject to refactoring in respective web frameworks. Those areas = are likely to be potential source of bugs (e.g. due to low code coverage wi= th unit tests) thus have certain degree of interest to both: end users and = framework developers. > > Did you read the paper? I'm not suggesting that you compare CC with LoC= =3B I'm > suggesting that you don't use CC as a metric at all. The research is fair= ly > conclusive that CC doesn't measure what you think it measures. The source= of > bugs is not excessive complexity in a method=2C just excessive lines of c= ode. LoC > is much simpler=2C easier to understand=2C and easier to correct than CC. > > -- > Robert Kern > > "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma=2C a harmless e= nigma > that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it= had > an underlying truth." > -- Umberto Eco > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list =