Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.048 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.91; '*S*': 0.00; 'programmer': 0.03; 'computing,': 0.07; 'implements': 0.09; 'runs': 0.10; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.11; '"run': 0.16; 'calculus,': 0.16; 'cc:name:python list': 0.16; 'finite': 0.16; 'friends),': 0.16; 'heap': 0.16; 'lambda': 0.16; 'stack': 0.19; 'memory': 0.22; 'otherwise,': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; "aren't": 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'least': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'usually': 0.31; 'you?': 0.31; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'science.': 0.36; 'useful': 0.36; 'being': 0.38; 'implement': 0.38; 'machines': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'even': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'establish': 0.61; 'range': 0.61; 'simply': 0.61; 'simple': 0.61; 'to:addr:gmail.com': 0.65; 'effectively': 0.66; 'grow': 0.77; 'dismissed': 0.84; 'recursion,': 0.84; 'dare': 0.91; 'ultimate': 0.93; 'washington': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=7KhWvLRmRE4YN6KZuwew8SkHoRAAh4BRGyCWs4jumRQ=; b=L8SF8RNQYidj2Jrj9kckaq/1XyfCWjd5ef8cUbHnCJ/vhKMgRLoiWYuhQ69zZqlfbm UjG046NxbNEkcON8aD22UraCpb1ET3trKj4gVMqjx9mRR490AFyBpPIZPdeGV+OGCd2b /84i7sNQ7yTG0nn/MKnv1GFbuhmmVPIIsinlMcYT9bUZ4zi6AVuCotY3cr0Cfjh0HFp2 O/rj1D7CmmKTcV6pdylsYfmoMDEKWW6vwKlB73nrdt9wGUYD7qI+COZ0mz5hcCzrzezt OXd4JJ6JzvMRyQrFlkj15M6ysBxutGGYlcXCDomwx9nhnaxIS7Ua28ePqWugDSpu2xfg wHDw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.201.202 with SMTP id kc10mr2853796wjc.1.1381253987380; Tue, 08 Oct 2013 10:39:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9526d1fb-a3eb-4b6d-96f5-df872f462dfe@googlegroups.com> References: <87had0axxy.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <524C80B6.3010204@unistra.fr> <87li292wnt.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <878uy52ea0.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <5252F610.9040403@rece.vub.ac.be> <525348d7$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <48454d8d-19be-49e4-a63e-9718067e6417@googlegroups.com> <9526d1fb-a3eb-4b6d-96f5-df872f462dfe@googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 10:39:47 -0700 Subject: Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis From: Mark Janssen To: rusi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Python List X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1381254336 news.xs4all.nl 15897 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:53587 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:56435 >> I don't have an infinite stack to implement >> lambda calculus, but... > > And then > >> But this is not a useful formalism. Any particular Program implements >> a DFA, even as it runs on a TM. The issue of whether than TM is >> finite or not can be dismissed because a simple calculation can >> usually suffice, or at least establish a range "usefulness" so as not >> to "run out of memory". > > Having it both ways aren't you? I'm just speaking from programmer experience and the fact that most machines are VonNeumann architecture. Being that as it is, maxing out the stack simply happens, and I don't dare do any non-simple recursion, but otherwise, practically speaking, I can calculate my memory usage that may grow on the heap so that is effectively a non-issue. This may not be an important distinction for computing, the "art" (Hello ultimate lambda friends), but it is significant for the computing, the science. MarkJ Tacoma, Washington