Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.04; 'say,': 0.05; '"as': 0.07; 'failing': 0.07; 'plenty': 0.07; 'subject:support': 0.07; 'string': 0.09; '(unicode': 0.09; 'bug.': 0.09; 'complicate': 0.09; 'escape': 0.09; 'expense': 0.09; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'mentions': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'thread': 0.14; 'benjamin': 0.16; 'correctness.': 0.16; 'fails.': 0.16; 'guilty': 0.16; "he'll": 0.16; 'non-ascii': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'rule.': 0.16; 'sadly': 0.16; 'saying.': 0.16; 'semantics': 0.16; 'subject:Unicode': 0.16; 'url:browse_thread': 0.16; 'url:thread': 0.16; 'sat,': 0.16; 'ignore': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; '>>>': 0.22; 'memory': 0.22; 'saying': 0.22; 'this?': 0.23; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.23; 'certainly': 0.24; 'recognize': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'url:moin': 0.24; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'fixed': 0.29; 'chris': 0.29; 'url:bugs': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'character': 0.29; 'especially': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'gives': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'url:wiki': 0.31; 'usually': 0.31; 'minor': 0.31; 'way?': 0.31; 'figure': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.33; '-----': 0.33; 'cases': 0.33; 'continuing': 0.33; 'implemented': 0.33; 'totally': 0.33; "can't": 0.35; 'test': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'edge': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'performance': 0.37; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'previous': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'read': 0.60; 'introduced': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; 'url:group': 0.63; 'provide': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'account': 0.65; 'skip:\xe2 10': 0.65; '20,': 0.68; '21st': 0.68; 'saving': 0.69; '8bit%:43': 0.74; '.replace': 0.84; 'batchelder': 0.84; 'characters,': 0.84; 'fonts': 0.84; 'hijacking': 0.84; 'horrible': 0.84; 'received:2': 0.84; 'tex': 0.84; 'url:lang': 0.84; 'mean.': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Mark Lawrence Subject: Re: Is Unicode support so hard... Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 19:18:04 +0100 References: <5172CEE4.9070403@nedbatchelder.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: host-2-98-203-78.as13285.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5 In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 130420-0, 20/04/2013), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 64 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1366481904 news.xs4all.nl 2194 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:35126 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:43964 On 20/04/2013 19:02, Benjamin Kaplan wrote: > On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote: >> On 4/20/2013 1:12 PM, jmfauth wrote: >>> >>> In a previous post, >>> >>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6aec70817705c226# >>> , >>> >>> Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote: >>> >>> “Is Unicode support so hard, especially in the 21st century?” >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Unicode is not really complicate and it works very well (more >>> than two decades of development if you take into account >>> iso-14****). >>> >>> But, - I can say, "as usual" - people prefer to spend their >>> time to make a "better Unicode than Unicode" and it usually >>> fails. Python does not escape to this rule. >>> >>> ----- >>> >>> I'm "busy" with TeX (unicode engine variant), fonts and typography. >>> This gives me plenty of ideas to test the "flexible string >>> representation" (FSR). I should recognize this FSR is failing >>> particulary very well... >>> >>> I can almost say, a delight. >>> >>> jmf >>> Unicode lover >> >> I'm totally confused about what you are saying. What does "make a better >> Unicode than Unicode" mean? Are you saying that Python is guilty of this? >> In what way? Can you provide specifics? Or are you saying that you like >> how Python has implemented it? "FSR is failing ... a delight"? I don't >> know what you mean. >> >> --Ned. > > Don't bother trying to figure this out. jmfauth has been hijacking > every thread that mentions Unicode to complain about the flexible > string representation introduced in Python 3.3. Apparently, having > proper Unicode semantics (indexing is based on characters, not code > points) at the expense of performance when calling .replace on the > only non-ASCII or BMP character in the string is a horrible bug. > He can't complain about performance for the .replace issue any more as it's been fixed http://bugs.python.org/issue16061 Sadly he'll almost certainly have more edge cases up his sleeve while continuing to ignore minor issues like memory saving and correctness. -- If you're using GoogleCrap™ please read this http://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython. Mark Lawrence