Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'encoding': 0.05; 'say,': 0.05; '"as': 0.07; 'failing': 0.07; 'plenty': 0.07; 'responding': 0.07; 'subject:support': 0.07; 'string': 0.09; '(unicode': 0.09; 'bug.': 0.09; 'complicate': 0.09; 'escape': 0.09; 'expense': 0.09; 'mentions': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'thread': 0.14; 'benjamin': 0.16; 'context:': 0.16; 'fails.': 0.16; 'fancy': 0.16; 'gpg': 0.16; 'guilty': 0.16; 'mangled': 0.16; 'newsgroups': 0.16; 'non-ascii': 0.16; 'rant,': 0.16; 'rule.': 0.16; 'saying.': 0.16; 'semantics': 0.16; 'subject:Unicode': 0.16; 'url:browse_thread': 0.16; 'url:thread': 0.16; 'sat,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; '>>>': 0.22; 'saying': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'this?': 0.23; 'recognize': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'question': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'character': 0.29; 'characters': 0.30; 'field,': 0.30; 'especially': 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; 'gives': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'usually': 0.31; 'way?': 0.31; 'figure': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.33; '-----': 0.33; 'implemented': 0.33; 'totally': 0.33; 'test': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'marks': 0.36; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'performance': 0.37; 'pm,': 0.38; 'previous': 0.38; 'short': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'according': 0.40; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'around.': 0.60; 'guy': 0.60; 'introduced': 0.61; 'from:charset:utf-8': 0.61; 'url:group': 0.63; 'provide': 0.64; 'account': 0.65; 'skip:\xe2 10': 0.65; '20,': 0.68; '21st': 0.68; '8bit%:43': 0.74; '.replace': 0.84; 'batchelder': 0.84; 'characters,': 0.84; 'fonts': 0.84; 'hijacking': 0.84; 'horrible': 0.84; 'ps.': 0.84; 'remark': 0.84; 'tex': 0.84; 'url:lang': 0.84; 'don\xe2\x80\x99t': 0.91; 'mean.': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92; 'url:tk': 0.95; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=q3flibN97TPVcvVvRV4vvvV5kEU0gkmQdgLSQxIw508=; b=SPZMM6dicaTFqkTvudEGZG4WzcamteFgCfKjzkWRxmt/s+k2tWEsHdDfozxp/ZAEWt 4P843p1ukvM6sl5nHJHNVUsgrJ1+V0++ODVzDd67d7LWN0/BQQCb7ShXdKVkNdMGUiWA sTsTkHzlWdLApZrAiWT7xyNREtjESxYv2TVUP6R6bqxo4vsUKvRUB0MFS8JAIcAGJYaM H7QFdWQSk+iihUAjhT+cJq2AUB5anl1W0dEF5yfKGRj7l3risulgzEkBNAQQk0KSsla1 di5fp/z82SgHI+DtRHp6ru9hs/LGLfX6JTv3QTUJw54oV5SmPe52zGb+refcVQ4mrJcw 7wGQ== X-Received: by 10.43.103.195 with SMTP id dj3mr10178421icc.3.1366481727681; Sat, 20 Apr 2013 11:15:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <5172CEE4.9070403@nedbatchelder.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2hyaXMg4oCcS3dwb2xza2HigJ0gV2Fycmljaw==?= Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 20:15:07 +0200 Subject: Re: Is Unicode support so hard... Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 74 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1366481736 news.xs4all.nl 2299 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:33236 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:43963 On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Benjamin Kaplan wrote: > On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Ned Batchelder = wrote: >> On 4/20/2013 1:12 PM, jmfauth wrote: >>> >>> In a previous post, >>> >>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6a= ec70817705c226# >>> , >>> >>> Chris =E2=80=9CKwpolska=E2=80=9D Warrick wrote: >>> >>> =E2=80=9CIs Unicode support so hard, especially in the 21st century?=E2= =80=9D >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Unicode is not really complicate and it works very well (more >>> than two decades of development if you take into account >>> iso-14****). >>> >>> But, - I can say, "as usual" - people prefer to spend their >>> time to make a "better Unicode than Unicode" and it usually >>> fails. Python does not escape to this rule. >>> >>> ----- >>> >>> I'm "busy" with TeX (unicode engine variant), fonts and typography. >>> This gives me plenty of ideas to test the "flexible string >>> representation" (FSR). I should recognize this FSR is failing >>> particulary very well... >>> >>> I can almost say, a delight. >>> >>> jmf >>> Unicode lover >> >> I'm totally confused about what you are saying. What does "make a bette= r >> Unicode than Unicode" mean? Are you saying that Python is guilty of thi= s? >> In what way? Can you provide specifics? Or are you saying that you lik= e >> how Python has implemented it? "FSR is failing ... a delight"? I don't >> know what you mean. >> >> --Ned. > > Don't bother trying to figure this out. jmfauth has been hijacking > every thread that mentions Unicode to complain about the flexible > string representation introduced in Python 3.3. Apparently, having > proper Unicode semantics (indexing is based on characters, not code > points) at the expense of performance when calling .replace on the > only non-ASCII or BMP character in the string is a horrible bug. > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Don=E2=80=99t forget the original context: this was a short remark to a guy= I was responding to. His newsgroups software (slrn according to the headers) mangled the encoding of U+201C and U+201D in my From field, turning them into three question marks each. And jmf started a rant, as usual=E2=80=A6 PS. There are two fancy Unicode characters around. Can you find both of them, jmf? -- Kwpolska | GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16 stop html mail | always bottom-post http://asciiribbon.org | http://caliburn.nl/topposting.html