Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.023 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.95; '*S*': 0.00; 'exercise': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.06; '(b)': 0.07; 'mouse': 0.07; 'counting': 0.09; 'cursor': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python- list': 0.11; 'adjusting': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:?)': 0.16; 'subject:unicode': 0.16; 'url:sites': 0.16; 'varies': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'typing': 0.19; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; '(a)': 0.24; 'keyboard': 0.24; 'orientation': 0.24; 'regardless': 0.24; 'environment': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'switch': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'tried': 0.27; '(c)': 0.29; 'quickly': 0.29; 'technology.': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; '(which': 0.31; 'usually': 0.31; '25,': 0.31; 'arm': 0.31; '(including': 0.33; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'ibm': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'step': 0.37; 'pm,': 0.38; 'moving': 0.39; 'according': 0.40; 'middle': 0.60; 'entire': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; "you've": 0.63; 'costs': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'finally': 0.65; 'laptop': 0.65; 'movement': 0.65; 'mar': 0.68; 'home': 0.69; 'hand': 0.80; 'counts': 0.83; 'subject:this': 0.83; 'cost,': 0.84; 'keystrokes': 0.84; 'touching': 0.84; 'discount': 0.87; 'to:none': 0.92 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=xlCAGtRj62TVMeWxUQqcSC7GViq0+Ez+zC1i0b1WlFY=; b=IubY1XiqPvJIsUaf79mRrlapXLK4elM8nfQXvpXaCSO4feVOnprQnJCR5O7n3QIcjE K2KW90jeBdR9frvvXy6+UCJdm8lOFW3GUQkb4Idu6b2M8HRrEAcSxc6heXdHiipjgv83 28IiUl7VKZUwxk+tObYzKcKH+xL9wZDxmq+eU7K93pCD8J9PE/6fVfOuqO0BPPElre9e KpC/xiptFX9T9jqenktqIA5o8zfxJ+5ksXz9VqXPloJGBN0O7LHXU3UlIqx/iHEiyTnb fxTOs1Zq1DmuYb71uYcHrUFhiiUXWm3iCvgFIaTtNAB7yNIiG9MWzVIGhIowqmI1C0NB tqMQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.248.7 with SMTP id yi7mr77328471pbc.31.1395726898630; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:54:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2228e770-e67f-4713-b2f3-5f1e98a27e89@googlegroups.com> References: <9daf0806-02de-4447-964c-c8f8953c23e5@googlegroups.com> <532d5bd9$0$29994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <0b78649a-16b3-4410-8258-e859578d62be@googlegroups.com> <281c8ce1-4f03-4e93-b5cd-d45b85e89e7e@googlegroups.com> <2228e770-e67f-4713-b2f3-5f1e98a27e89@googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:54:58 +1100 Subject: Re: Time we switched to unicode? (was Explanation of this Python language feature?) From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1395726902 news.xs4all.nl 2956 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:60129 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:68969 On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > You are not counting mouse > For an emacs user > Looking at mouse counts as 3 keystrokes > Touching is more like 5-8 > https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/effective-emacs I think the cost of the mouse varies according to technology. I'm currently working on two systems: my desktop (Sikorsky) with a classic 101-key keyboard (including numpad) and a mouse to the right of it, and my laptop (Traal) with an IBM keyboard with a trackpoint (stick mouse) in the middle of it. I can switch to Traal's mouse almost as quickly as typing a G or H, but Sikorsky's mouse requires me to move my entire arm across from home position to the mouse pad. (Which means I do far FAR better playing a classic first-person shooter on Sikorsky - I keep my left hand on WASD for movement and my right hand on the mouse for orientation and weaponry. Much more efficient than Traal's setup.) But regardless of the exact cost, it's still significant. Switching to the mouse requires (a) moving a finger or hand onto the mouse; (b) pushing the mouse to the right position; (c) sighting the mouse cursor on the screen; (d) adjusting the mouse position until you're where you want to be; and finally (e) clicking, which is roughly the same cost as one keystroke. The costs of a through d depend on environment and circumstances (don't discount step c until you've tried this exercise in bright sunlight), but will usually be of the order of the above 5-8 keystroke figure. You might be able to get it down to 3 keystrokes, but not to 1. ChrisA