Path: csiph.com!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed1.swip.net!uio.no!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.099 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.80; '*S*': 0.00; 'works.': 0.07; 'obey': 0.09; 'example:': 0.10; 'python': 0.10; 'wed,': 0.15; 'illegal,': 0.16; 'received:mail-pa0-x236.google.com': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'sender:addr:gmail.com': 0.18; '2015': 0.20; 'sets': 0.23; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'hosting': 0.25; 'not.': 0.27; 'liable': 0.27; 'host': 0.28; 'idea': 0.28; 'archives': 0.29; 'url:wikipedia': 0.29; 'read,': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'url:wiki': 0.30; 'law.': 0.30; 'posts': 0.30; 'point': 0.33; "d'aprano": 0.33; 'european': 0.33; 'point,': 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'list': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'i.e.': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'apply.': 0.36; 'hosted': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'agree': 0.37; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.37; 'mailing': 0.38; 'material': 0.39; 'url:en': 0.39; 'along': 0.39; 'rather': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'john': 0.61; 'believe': 0.66; 'url:%26': 0.67; 'foreign': 0.69; 'dangerous': 0.70; 'from:addr:mail': 0.70; 'country': 0.74; 'received:122': 0.74; '+1100': 0.84; 'moot': 0.84; 'regarded': 0.84; 'download.': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:date:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=R7wKFggvlhV5Lh92jPFj9Lr2JkJFRlfSJlnokaIfA24=; b=kZnQr/QjUd4OfjaCHbq9sSUzSNpB7zUEJVo83TCXHIE2i/H4rN41+kTsxmvthJV9oi 2WFhy+ldGRECgQuaFOcl5xxngH8Dhaof9zdRKAXoSqn7C6e/QJqylwGnatJNpWdOAcKS XD5egAKZHfgzkJV48szpP35m0FySf2C2Sh6urAwReZkG9hw20kDPWSFmP0erNj7Bc4/a t4IvhxQbNwH/8hL0UoPO1CZ+4WLc5jYUABggN/AXD1KRZWRrRtq2d8abHASKheClAJxx ks1G/mAVoYqZq2PtEFDZoG+SBBBoAhDKP7X3z+l4QS0ipq+mCSqY+PXxv7rAuYugil69 Lo9A== X-Received: by 10.68.134.73 with SMTP id pi9mr13913043pbb.55.1445474719904; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Sender: "John O'Hagan" From: "John O'Hagan" X-Google-Original-From: John O'Hagan Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:45:08 +1100 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Defamation In-Reply-To: <56263cfe$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <1454496840.1661921445200299637.JavaMail.httpd@webmail-50.iol.local> <56263cfe$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.12.0 (GTK+ 2.24.28; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:46:19 +0200 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1445499981 news.xs4all.nl 23829 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:57440 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:97882 On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 00:09:18 +1100 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I don't believe that the Python mailing list archives are hosted in a > country under the jurisdiction of European Law. If I'm right, then > removing posts sets a dangerous precedent of obeying laws in foreign > countries that don't apply. For better or worse, that's not how defamation law works. Generally, the defaming is regarded as happening where the material is read, i.e. at the point of download. The location of upload, hosting etc is irrelevant, although the uploader and the host can both be liable along with the author. Of course, the point is moot if none of those people has assets in that jurisdiction. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_Jones_%26_Co_Inc_v_Gutnick On the specific point, I think it's possible to agree with both Steven and Laura. It's a bad idea to obey laws that don't apply to you if you'd rather not. It's also a good idea if possible to remove defamatory material, not because it might be illegal, but because it's defamatory. Regards John