Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Kyle Thomas Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: PEP8 needs revision Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:18:19 -0700 Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de vdNuDAXkCggiC6knnv3vcACEDq2c21pFLhAElfex137Q== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'operator': 0.03; 'received:209.85.223': 0.03; 'binary': 0.05; 'source.': 0.05; 'formatting': 0.07; 'interpreted': 0.07; 'newline': 0.07; 'modes': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'language,': 0.11; 'output': 0.13; 'cares': 0.16; 'newlines': 0.16; 'pep8': 0.16; 'quoted': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'whitespace.': 0.16; 'refers': 0.18; 'language': 0.19; 'expense': 0.22; 'referring': 0.22; 'programming': 0.22; 'bit': 0.23; 'wrote': 0.23; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'language.': 0.32; 'source': 0.33; 'common': 0.33; '8bit%:25': 0.33; 'rule': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'so,': 0.35; 'text': 0.35; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'whom': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.38; 'speak': 0.38; 'means': 0.39; 'format': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'offer': 0.66; 'further,': 0.72; 'definitive': 0.84; 'subject:needs': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=JIDn02yk15P1DHfXUl8rWO4eRNTkSGwfhR/TkA9LCUA=; b=PFeD5PGC7N/l97s8gDqUS7zOSCAcexX2w/gsqW1h8wbMopRdPIj4NxOpryWR5XtmDN IyoGWTRuu/eB4IrZDTdXRnegrrq6KOcaGu4Sz75uHbsY7vsrJkX0KBVRZaXg7GTwIOrr HLe0BBzUsmVbmg6k4ZYgSHBWwEikXsZs4vixMOmEfjMEU2ou43sPWlHnE1TrZOJtwmk3 m6/mbyLi9c5hj42wL/npvfR9CuvdTAzu1kT62YvYpbhAe42GGYzQnMhDBUhodl2si56k jUY0TLRQdgFVdlL3ICFwI9RarpiObRB04L88YRC7xd+aw0GERpikiCtAeBLAp+MbBu/d DLiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=JIDn02yk15P1DHfXUl8rWO4eRNTkSGwfhR/TkA9LCUA=; b=U/A5FEAupv040fhJcnLdwD3DBaDuOCIeZwUxQgK9lqgYY2tr8rMCL86qut1nLHRZ9Y tcQzqab+wxjtdurfoD8M3HyBrzUYGVGyurInJV3PmwtGm1Ndwg0SUqdsQNGQD7OK6pAX zqqnOFAqoRoi+qzrhMCQUTsfSpRkdbjM1yJehmj4dNQ6eBJs6iaZkDEvuzj4rLs0Z8oP ks9BPVZ/f47h0tD9slTHbbBNiUeg4EBPmCx0hB11R6Nab1kpz5rHRoNIgZhz3tj2X79W YsJnYoxMf33hkTSjHWdW7b7jvT1+BCwYBHnemE+aRDoi88VCzazPM85FEhLGzmZeYX2V V7vQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tLF6kudfvBMaUeodU/Iz+0rR7hPZDzyIfYUO5JySpMXl3PFFD5lpXJW87tndwVqlBPU5QAGpcP3nHjxsQ== X-Received: by 10.107.138.201 with SMTP id c70mr1719719ioj.148.1466018300016; Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:18:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 15:28:27 -0400 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.22 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:109992 To Whom It May Concern, Knuth's quote refers to the output of TeX, the programming language he authored. The quote cannot be interpreted to speak about formatting of source-code. One bit of evidence I can offer is that TeX's source only cares about multiple newlines in considering the multiplicity of whitespace. This means that Knuth's quote likely has little or no bearing on the format of source-code. Further, TeX, being a modal language, has two modes of outputting math: inline(like in a paragraph) and display. This is what the quote refers to. So, Knuth is quoted referring to the output of his language, not the format of its source. He wrote that a binary operator is printed before a line-break in inline-mode of TeX's output while that same operator is printed after the newline in display-mode. PEP8's reference to Knuth's quote as a definitive rule for formatting python source-code is inappropriate. Is PEP8 a joke at the expense pedantry common of those new to programming? PS: Knuth's quote was taken from The TeXbook, a text about his programming language. -Kyle