Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.020 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:: [': 0.04; '(at': 0.04; 'models.': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'mostly': 0.14; 'sections': 0.14; 'cc:name:python list': 0.16; 'subject:OOP': 0.16; 'subject:object': 0.16; 'subject:possible': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'subject:type': 0.16; 'url:sources': 0.16; 'essential': 0.16; 'subject:] ': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**1': 0.23; 'mathematical': 0.24; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.24; 'compare': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'to:2**1': 0.27; 'originally': 0.30; 'towards': 0.31; 'concern': 0.31; 'actual': 0.34; 'there': 0.35; 'science,': 0.36; 'view,': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'example,': 0.37; 'application': 0.37; 'machines': 0.38; 'itself': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'received:212.82': 0.60; 'hardware': 0.61; 'simple': 0.61; 'received:217': 0.63; 'map': 0.64; 'subject:The': 0.64; 'modeling': 0.65; 'to:addr:gmail.com': 0.65; 'url:pdf': 0.68; 'heavy': 0.81; 'received:217.146.189': 0.84; 'predictions': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=talk21.com; s=s1024; t=1366359946; bh=ca8/sctuHtOQb0HmKcERfcqLswdMLr6v5zL0Z+kaK6E=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:Importance:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=i4QIOcE3gvcGr57dxRIQ0ScpfAm+HaujM1HXuDW6ueyq3xxIub/SSaC4hLfD7iuh7tARTJmnw/0bRokkttS+RVTG1M27z/j3ByNlY7QOpKDzSvtuvDMuuCd23NOJTtXPRsq7fLhah8mEgeKhx80igZ+AcCBmmC30/RzJxt4LGes= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 967022.57145.bm@smtp827.mail.ird.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: VmtKsOcVM1mm.g7Bwsb_ZCUY1g2dDSB76y6kgB7fhgNbHCB VCEhbHbFCPNKGoexBj6X5wv0BmmXMwVjLVC4AEM25SKkYJh6x7Y0KmTMVw_P OcQDVbl6unej_LcI8UrwjQOpZSHfIWV6UX8LZXeEx8W4_R_uPVMEJfNvGRCw SIm_TpmNk573Y_NaoxDTDk28.A7xKMV2zoV6B8b3fgAg5lzUSFHSHOcua0jY aXQmTe1kiZEvfNrc7KSzDmtTioGlueQHluZuR2sapW6z0_cXH.CcqZEVlHMv RBogzO3IG6JhiUwbE16STg2QAHbE4AMaU_C2Z5FbMfSWJIdLr9VkT7raDB8c 0oTScJmLWQ9v2sH5ZEPnHkjkPVUO7gkxBxB7nhsj2r6Ujzpxl35_q_kG.4Dk gy8Vz7bokXh0PGnq2EVVElh8BaotrU9U.HSjCpO_ohF2z55NKSV9Jj0ivF1. S.p_FSDVCSX5GegDW8FtTrrqja0jH78cm1GBG0nMoNHrD4iVHPtO91KlRnZE 0AqtHluK38Gco9JmftFCGyQgYEn14qTYhDpv_kx3jHywDV_EhJtptMVWJ7So 7_4LrFwLEVGC56m0jVyrE6qh45hP4EzcS X-Yahoo-SMTP: qS1QfHOswBCepVyfsXa5p.E5ZNvmeRQcIIgJiwb6D1lrhdne.MeuWAHnlUc- X-Rocket-Received: from VAIO (claus.reinke@89.204.135.220 with login) by smtp827.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2013 01:25:46 -0700 PDT From: "Claus Reinke" To: "Mark Janssen" , "Types List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [TYPES] The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 10:25:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 Cc: Python List , moezadel@live.com X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1366360080 news.xs4all.nl 2223 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:34427 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:43890 > The main thing that I notice is that there is a heavy "bias" in > academia towards mathematical models. I understand that Turing > Machines, for example, were originally abstract computational concepts > before there was an implementation in hardware, so I have some > sympathies with that view, yet, should not the "Science" of "Computer > Science" concern itself with how to map these abstract computational > concepts into actual computational hardware? I prefer to think of Turing machines as an attempt to model existing and imagined hardware (at the time, mostly human computers, or groups of them with comparatively simple tools). See sections 1. and 9. in Turing, "On computable numbers, with an application to the Entscheidungsproblem", http://web.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/research/areas/ieg/e-library/sources/tp2-ie.pdf Modeling existing systems, in order to be able to reason about them, is essential for science, as is translating models into experiments, in order to compare predictions to reality. Claus