Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: The Cost of Dynamism (was Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster?) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 14:24:25 +1100 Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <56e44258$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <8737rvxs89.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <56e7483d$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <56ef9787$0$1516$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <56f02196$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de Fc3+dqBvWY6u8beAwjeGdwdehJMOCu/IIBh/8Ug+HzSg== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.044 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.91; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.09; 'subject:which': 0.09; 'python.': 0.11; 'times,': 0.13; 'thu,': 0.15; '2016': 0.16; '24,': 0.16; 'evaluating': 0.16; 'example).': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'python;': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'subject:?)': 0.16; 'valid.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'obviously': 0.16; 'language': 0.19; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; "aren't": 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'all.': 0.24; 'equivalent': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'executing': 0.27; 'measure': 0.29; "they'll": 0.29; 'books': 0.30; "we're": 0.30; 'code': 0.30; 'task': 0.30; 'extend': 0.31; 'probably': 0.31; 'everyone': 0.31; 'another': 0.32; 'right?': 0.33; 'running': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'instead': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'expect': 0.37; 'there,': 0.37; 'one,': 0.37; 'starting': 0.37; 'things': 0.38; 'doing': 0.38; 'difference': 0.38; 'itself': 0.38; "won't": 0.38; 'received:209': 0.38; 'wrong': 0.38; 'why': 0.39; 'still': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'easy': 0.60; 'your': 0.60; 'subject:The': 0.61; "you'll": 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'mar': 0.65; 'results': 0.66; 'fact,': 0.67; 'worth': 0.67; 'obvious': 0.76; '"fast"': 0.84; 'bus,': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'obvious.': 0.84; 'quicker': 0.84; 'slowed': 0.84; 'tube': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91; 'boxes,': 0.91; 'walking': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=aeVwRaCoEjtPBQjhaUgzyBH7uUv38zA7xJSuV2rDSRU=; b=P8NkHWLQCstptQddDOgIGdxJSOST0ubl/8cvB3zwIt6ze3pmLKwiER4u+UFvCVJH38 NklMFiJ8Q7bmLY3agjaI2thmIMO6D0+uV9OE13QyQidLRgMuygXURc5RsJ78LdjxiEwo 8t7KH8o3QbMX5ayVRD1NHeO1Hr3lxZ73OEBGHpdhHYz8fDPsIzSuA/VWXMWo3/MHzDzE VVY5EVAImsuPFv+kTcWgc3xHpK52rDvW4MvyTnm9ggq6ADKEtq0U+2GsZ3+DqWLYYQYJ mFGwyp8aCV6L2FNtCW0tl8kvG9pNcZZdG5kg7AjzAbHrutZwXP39zOpoIVByYWlIJTNI QF0w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=aeVwRaCoEjtPBQjhaUgzyBH7uUv38zA7xJSuV2rDSRU=; b=lTwS3hHDnlc5dYQWXxogVHEo2WWD2xd+ycpJLuQgxR6ER6xmpnLqp3ILcx0YajogF8 IQ3LxTRvtwU5uxcL1y8TjZXRFQriV4jImVzLjrVcZyiGHg4LHLW7E56Un4wzBk6O0Geg JNqwm0xjkLzC/h+hmcfSgp80OTPRoDvbHj1C9aKdE905SAwsRWjwKTkC90hx65a/7FF7 0833Hp9DX5vdbxI9hckPlcu+GTrRm6WhyF0zUX7z+dRC3ZWUtpCy4COfiwPsVDOlREUD I5edbbOmOS0xRVaxt4Cfnu2oAPtCg9G814jjyDn2V76UMovKaGb0CSfzIhaGSU09qxi+ Hiaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJW1VNS4rT62FPtGL69w1p98yHgPI/8daOZiuxz736SimeBeCFEgscP4EwGCRET51CfX1uBC8K41E8M6Q== X-Received: by 10.25.156.196 with SMTP id f187mr2507077lfe.150.1458789865877; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:24:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:105585 On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 12:41 AM, BartC wrote: > To extend this analogy better, executing byte-code to directly perform a > task itself might be equivalent to travelling on foot, while everyone is > suggesting taking the bus, tube or taxi. > > But when you are on foot, it might be worth looking at what's slowing you > down, or indeed at whether you are actually being slowed down at all. With > walking it's easy because 3mph is typical, you'll know when something is > obviously wrong (dragging or carrying a huge amount of baggage with you for > example). Running byte-code is not so obvious. > It's easy to see that carrying five boxes of books will slow down you're walking *dramatically*. In fact, it's probably quicker to take just one of them, and then come back for another one, and so on. When you travel by car, it's much harder to measure the cost of the five boxes, but it made so much difference in walking time that you should probably take one box at a time, right? This is how you're currently evaluating Python. Instead of starting with the most simple and obvious code and refining from there, you're starting from a whole lot of preconceived ideas about what's "fast" or "slow", and assuming/expecting that they'll all still be valid. Many of them won't be, yet you still persist in doing things based on what you expect to be the case (because of what's fast/slow in C or some other language). We've explained this a number of times, and one by one, we're coming to the conclusion that you not only don't understand Python, you don't *want* to understand Python; and until you actually understand how the language works, timing stats are dubious. Do you understand why people aren't taking your results very seriously? ChrisA