Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.029 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.94; '*S*': 0.00; 'cpython': 0.05; 'concurrently': 0.07; 'means,': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'worse': 0.09; 'finney': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'all.': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'do.': 0.18; '2001': 0.19; "python's": 0.19; 'putting': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'writes:': 0.31; 'quite': 0.32; 'could': 0.34; 'but': 0.35; 'false': 0.36; 'received:com.au': 0.36; 'shows': 0.36; 'ben': 0.38; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.38; 'that,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'up,': 0.60; 'address': 0.63; 'different': 0.65; 'god': 0.65; 'within': 0.65; '8bit%:21': 0.69; 'other.': 0.75; 'low': 0.83; 'belief': 0.84; 'level"': 0.84; 'received:125': 0.84; 'promised': 0.91 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Ben Finney Subject: Re: Reference Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 17:26:25 +1100 References: <53144e8d$0$2149$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <1d1dfa1b-b715-4d8f-9c12-f0d3dc1a22c9@googlegroups.com> <85ppm3httu.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20140303155112.46e34ff8@bigbox.christie.dr> <87siqy7whs.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <53155c15$0$2923$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com> <164d209c-ba5e-449f-bc25-c27ebfb1fc0f@googlegroups.com> <5316b0dc$0$2923$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: vmx15867.hosting24.com.au X-Public-Key-ID: 0xBD41714B X-Public-Key-Fingerprint: 9CFE 12B0 791A 4267 887F 520C B7AC 2E51 BD41 714B X-Public-Key-URL: http://www.benfinney.id.au/contact/bfinney-gpg.asc X-Post-From: Ben Finney User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:2gTbIZOf4YxXVjBeWgVhtruxluw= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1394001007 news.xs4all.nl 2838 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:50109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:67813 Rustom Mody writes: > I can say "'id' is just 'machine-id' is just address at some low > level" You could say that, but it's wrong. The only thing promised by “object identity” is that each object has it, and that it is different from the identity of every other object concurrently existing. “Machine id” is not entailed within that at all. > And before you bring it up, "Jython's id is not machine-id" is putting > the cart before the horse. You have a false idea of what Python's object identity means, and it has warped your understanding of what implementations do. > "Jython is an imitation of Cpython and does a good job but not quite as > in the case of 'id'" Wrong. Jython and CPython both adhere to the guarantees of object identity. Both implementations follow the language reference, and neither implementation does object identity better or worse than the other. -- \ “Science shows that belief in God is not only obsolete. It is | `\ also incoherent.” —Victor J. Stenger, 2001 | _o__) | Ben Finney