Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'tutorial': 0.03; 'parameters': 0.04; 'argument': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'assignment': 0.07; 'variables': 0.07; 'arguments': 0.09; 'pretend': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:into': 0.09; 'thus,': 0.09; 'yeah,': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; '"mark': 0.16; 'exist.': 0.16; 'finney': 0.16; 'ideally,': 0.16; 'models,': 0.16; 'object).': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:?)': 0.16; 'subject:avoiding': 0.16; 'subject:variable': 0.16; 'wider': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; '(where': 0.19; 'community,': 0.19; 'passing': 0.19; "python's": 0.19; 'programming': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'certainly': 0.24; 'right.': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'function': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'away.': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'community': 0.33; 'actual': 0.34; 'table': 0.34; 'doubt': 0.36; 'like,': 0.36; 'charset:us- ascii': 0.36; 'so,': 0.37; 'ben': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'expect': 0.39; 'though,': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'called': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'subject:Can': 0.60; 'hope': 0.61; 'introduced': 0.61; 'term': 0.63; 'refer': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'sound': 0.68; '4.6': 0.84; 'simple!': 0.91 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Neil Cerutti Subject: Re: References, and avoiding use of ???variable??? (was: Can global variable be passed into Python function?) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 14:30:46 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Norwich University References: <27ac2248-0ca3-4ba6-9d25-eaad324bc5e9@googlegroups.com> <5f4f5a5f-327a-4616-8235-17ee9e74c488@googlegroups.com> <85ha7knedo.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: jackman.norwich.edu User-Agent: slrn/0.9.9p1/mm/ao (Win32) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1393597876 news.xs4all.nl 2834 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:50639 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:67223 On 2014-02-28, Ben Finney wrote: > "Mark H. Harris" writes: >> So, yeah, thinking about variables is just not going away. > > Right. I would like, ideally, for the Python documentation to > avoid mentioning that term entirely; and I would hope for that > to promote a better understanding of Python's data model. > > The wider programming community, though, will no doubt continue > to use that term to refer to various (incompatible) data > models, and I certainly don't expect the Python community to > pretend it doesn't exist. I like the characteristic of Python that assignment and argument passing work the same way. If only C were so simple! The tutorial makes things sound more high-falutin' than that [Tutorial 4.6 Defining Functions]: The actual parameters (arguments) to a function call are introduced in the local symbol table of the called function when it is called; thus, arguments are passed using call by value (where the value is always an object reference, not the value of the object). [...] How about: The actual parameters (arguments) to a function call are passed via assignment to the variables in the local symbol table of the called function. Am I oversimplifying? -- Neil Cerutti