Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.003 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'subject:PEP': 0.07; 'string': 0.09; 'bytes.': 0.09; 'framework.': 0.09; 'from:addr:ethan': 0.09; 'from:addr:stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'from:name:ethan furman': 0.09; 'message-id:@stoneleaf.us': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; '24,': 0.16; 'clear.': 0.16; 'received:69.41.248': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'feb': 0.22; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'bytes': 0.24; 'string,': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'converting': 0.30; 'usually': 0.31; 'protocols': 0.31; 'subject:skip:i 10': 0.31; 'text': 0.33; 'framework': 0.33; "can't": 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'add': 0.35; 'done': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'actions': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'lower': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; 'air': 0.66; 'covers': 0.68; '2014,': 0.84 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:53:03 -0800 From: Ethan Furman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Python 3.5, bytes, and %-interpolation (aka PEP 461) References: <87ha7o9r2q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <1393275888.21136.87279633.092F472A@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1393275888.21136.87279633.092F472A@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator3304.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - python.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - stoneleaf.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 173.12.184.233 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([173.12.184.233]) [173.12.184.233]:49492 X-Source-Auth: ethan+stoneleaf.us X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: dG9idWs7dG9idWs7Z2F0b3IzMzA0Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1393281705 news.xs4all.nl 2899 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:37063 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:67006 On 02/24/2014 01:04 PM, random832@fastmail.us wrote: > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014, at 15:46, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> That is: >> >> 1. ineffient (encode/decode shuffle) >> >> 2. unnatural (strings usually have no place in protocols) > > That's not at all clear. Why _aren't_ these protocols considered text > protocols? Why can't you add a string directly to headers? Because text is a high-order abstraction. You don't store text in files, you don't transmit text over the wire or through the air -- those actions are done with a lower abstraction, that of bytes. You're framework may allow you to add a string, but under the covers it's converting to bytes -- at which point is up to the framework. -- ~Ethan~