Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'syntax': 0.03; 'essentially': 0.04; 'method.': 0.05; 'decorator': 0.07; 'nested': 0.07; 'wrapped': 0.07; 'wrapper': 0.07; 'accepts': 0.09; 'ignoring': 0.09; 'maker': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'sep': 0.09; 'terry': 0.09; 'def': 0.10; 'subject:not': 0.11; 'passing': 0.15; '**kwds)': 0.16; '**kwds):': 0.16; 'nesting': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'simpler,': 0.16; 'simpson': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'jan': 0.18; 'define': 0.20; 'parameters': 0.20; 'people,': 0.21; 'effort.': 0.22; 'explicit': 0.22; 'least': 0.25; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.26; 'am,': 0.27; 'skip:@ 10': 0.27; 'header:X -Complaints-To:1': 0.28; 'words': 0.29; 'class': 0.29; "i'm": 0.29; 'call.': 0.30; 'function': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.33; 'compared': 0.35; 'pm,': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'received:org': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'does': 0.37; 'option': 0.37; 'level': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'think': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'most': 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'worth': 0.63; 'here': 0.65; 'burden': 0.65; 'difficulty': 0.65; 'below.': 0.68; 'gain': 0.79; '4:29': 0.84; 'cognitive': 0.84; 'irrelevant': 0.84; 'pain': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'wrapper,': 0.84 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: Decorators not worth the effort Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:33:01 -0400 References: <20120914021211.GA15642@cskk.homeip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-75-251-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120824 Thunderbird/15.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 67 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1347655802 news.xs4all.nl 6924 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:35636 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:29188 On 9/14/2012 4:29 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 9/13/2012 10:12 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: >> On 13Sep2012 18:58, alex23 wrote: >> | On Sep 14, 3:54 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant >> | wrote: >> | > I don't like decorators, I think they're not worth the mental effort. >> | >> | Because passing a function to a function is a huge cognitive burden? > > For parameterized decorators, there is extra cognitive burden. See below. > > >> It is for me when I'm _writing_ the decorator:-) But if I get it right >> and name it well I find it dramaticly _decreases_ the cognitive burden >> of the code using the decorator... > > For a simple, unparameterized wrapper, the difficulty is entirely in the > wrapper maker. It must define the final wrapper as a nested function and > return it*. It is irrelevant whether the wrapper maker is used with > pre-def decorator syntax or with an explicit post-def call. > > *I am here ignoring the option of a class with __call__ method. > > For a parameterized wrapper, using decorator syntax requires passing the > parameter(s) first and the function to be wrapped later. This requires > currying the wrapper maker with double nesting. The nesting order may > seem inside-out to some. For most people, this is extra work compared to > writing a wrapper that accepts the function and parameters together and > only has a single level of nesting. > > In other words > > def make_wrapper(func, param): > def wrapper(*args, **kwds): > for i in range(param): > func(*args, **kwds) > return wrapper > > def f(x): print(x) > f = make_wrapper(f, 2) > f('simple') > > # is simpler, at least for some people, than the following > # which does essentially the same thing. > > def make_outer(param): > def make_inner(func): > def wrapper(*args, **kwds): > for i in range(param): > func(*args, **kwds) > return wrapper > return make_inner > > @make_outer(2) > def f(x): print(x) > f('complex') > > Is the gain of not repeating the wrapped function name twice in the > post-def wrapping call, and the gain of knowing the function will be > wrapped before reading the def, worth the pain of currying the wrapper > maker? > -- Terry Jan Reedy