Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!feeder.news-service.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.01; 'bug': 0.02; 'subject:Python': 0.04; 'ubuntu': 0.04; 'wed,': 0.04; 'mess': 0.07; 'python': 0.07; 'admit': 0.09; 'exceptions,': 0.09; 'framework,': 0.09; 'frameworks.': 0.09; 'myself,': 0.09; 'tying': 0.09; 'pm,': 0.11; 'linux': 0.11; 'wrote:': 0.14; '(is': 0.16; '.net.': 0.16; '64-bit,': 0.16; 'devs': 0.16; 'forking': 0.16; 'hypothetical': 0.16; 'incompatible': 0.16; 'stuck.': 0.16; 'opinion': 0.16; 'idle': 0.19; 'code,': 0.20; 'language': 0.20; 'code': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; '(and': 0.22; 'breaks': 0.23; 'received:209.85.214.174': 0.23; 'received:mail- iw0-f174.google.com': 0.23; 'fix': 0.24; 'version': 0.25; '.net': 0.25; 'windows': 0.26; 'chris': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'bugs': 0.29; 'probably': 0.30; 'least': 0.30; "won't": 0.30; 'compiling': 0.31; 'microsoft,': 0.31; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.32; 'source': 0.32; 'done': 0.32; 'option': 0.33; 'words,': 0.33; 'actually': 0.34; 'change': 0.34; 'requires': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'that,': 0.35; 'open': 0.35; 'question': 0.35; 'running': 0.36; 'systems,': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'some': 0.37; 'case': 0.37; 'received:209.85': 0.37; 'either': 0.37; 'run': 0.37; '(to': 0.38; 'apr': 0.38; 'hardware': 0.38; 'received:google.com': 0.38; 'but': 0.38; 'completely': 0.38; 'much.': 0.39; 'received:209.85.214': 0.39; 'though,': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:209': 0.39; 'said': 0.39; 'whatever': 0.39; "it's": 0.40; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'care.': 0.60; 'laptops': 0.60; 'happen': 0.61; 'design': 0.61; '2011': 0.62; 'perfectly': 0.65; 'yourself': 0.66; 'intend': 0.68; 'heavy': 0.69; 'proud': 0.72; 'risk': 0.75; 'ship': 0.77; '(let': 0.84; 'bias': 0.84; 'forever': 0.84; 'subject:over': 0.84; 'trust.': 0.84; 'xp,': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=LQDGPbAAVvELD+B+h7qYTXi3jZLP4+DQYLqMFZQpnLo=; b=izcKvTbVrfuZkwaovzr5gGRKpy0erY+LmjawO1P7OCfjEqJ8diVT/wnEPKBYq2yjzZ cGS7NTK72SRUjg7uMmUj/hSYIAxGdX355w1yvlqzy+HJ3T5Nkn+/GQc1v0gQBwfKNvFJ di361uBoxGh48NC3edLWIoOUCCMOvAQefb05A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=aracXgCmbq80hAjWmpWnSHsfyYKpJhr+eDysevMPVOTf7Cu7oVUU6yPaV+CCajsbNn mKlfACgLQF4Bp46l6MPe5VwClA96+Tb5sLiI3lVg1cKOZ9HQ3LvcCj6PGKhPNKBdvqtt 2EKsDh6ANY951hs5QO9eAe4wE2IGpi0XYWZdQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 18:26:25 +1000 Subject: Re: Python benefits over Cobra From: Chris Angelico To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.94.164.166 X-Trace: 1302078388 news.xs4all.nl 65870 [::ffff:82.94.164.166]:48158 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:2694 On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 6:03 PM, harrismh777 wrote: > Having said all of that, I must admit my bias against Microsoft .NET and the > Mono frameworks. I personally cannot support a language that requires either > one. Microsoft has made such a mess out of almost everything it has > touched... including language design (er, lockin). Cobra patronizes this > scheme and is therefore also evil. This is of course just an opinion (and a > proud one I must admit). In other words, you have a bias against non-portability. Right now, I have around me two laptops running Windows XP, two running Ubuntu 10.10 64-bit, and two running Ubuntu 32-bit. (Surprisingly balanced.) With a very few exceptions, code that I write in IDLE on one box will run perfectly on any of the others. That won't happen in a language that requires a Microsoft framework, because it's simply not in their interests to ship for Linux (let alone OS/2, which I have at home). I do like me some true portability. Even if you don't intend to move off Windows, though, there's a lot of risk in tying yourself to a non-free framework, especially such a heavy one as .NET. You're completely at the mercy of the provider, in this case Microsoft, and if they make an incompatible change in the framework, you're forever stuck. At least with open source systems, you have the option of forking Python version whatever and compiling it for your new hardware (is there a Python 1.0 for amd64? heh). Hypothetical situation yes, but it's a question of trust. Do you trust Microsoft to never have any bugs in the .NET framework? (To be honest, I don't actually trust the Python devs *that* much. But if Python version 3.Foo has a bug that breaks my code, I do at least have the ability to fix it myself, if I care. Which I probably don't with Python, but I have done with other OSS.) Chris Angelico