Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail
From: Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp?
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:08:01 +0200
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <mailman.71.1465373313.2306.python-list@python.org>
References: <a1ff5170-e059-4379-b16a-d9eff8bc60a0@googlegroups.com> <87mvn22veg.fsf@rudin.co.uk> <13108bea-6750-443b-bee8-0532aba8b338@googlegroups.com> <CAG93HwG9pHJ_gtFcZhq5PCazwU4GTWeyqU8H=gLmoVR2h6-sUw@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.129.1464969297.1839.python-list@python.org> <c0c6b56a-64ac-4cb3-9ee1-076fdc12634b@googlegroups.com> <5753c89b$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1465148542.2670061.628500777.62F1EFE1@webmail.messagingengine.com> <mailman.12.1465148550.2306.python-list@python.org> <5754f36b$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1465186088.3554819.628831041.19D0DC8D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <mailman.20.1465186091.2306.python-list@python.org> <575599f4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <drn56cFn10fU1@mid.individual.net> <57569f6a$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <5756BED8.2000304@rece.vub.ac.be> <mailman.57.1465302781.2306.python-list@python.org> <5756f040$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5757D261.1060006@rece.vub.ac.be>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de ad8nr9SVlpCma7qbMTaa6Qe1FfOA6tlIH6cIGw6X3vmg==
Return-Path: <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.003
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'essentially': 0.04; 'received:134': 0.05; 'bits': 0.07; 'shortcut': 0.07; 'implemented.': 0.09; 'semantics': 0.09; 'wrong,': 0.09; 'python.': 0.11; 'variables': 0.15; '2016': 0.16; 'containers': 0.16; 'received:ac.be': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'arrays': 0.22; 'sorry,': 0.22; 'references': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.26; "doesn't": 0.26; 'not.': 0.27; "i'm": 0.30; 'received:be': 0.30; 'statement': 0.32; 'steven': 0.33; 'tue,': 0.34; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'seem': 0.37; 'difference': 0.38; 'no,': 0.38; 'wrong': 0.38; 'subject:the': 0.39; 'unable': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'between': 0.65; 'talking': 0.67; '10:32': 0.84; "d'aprano:": 0.84; 'pardon': 0.84; 'schreef': 0.84
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArIIAHYeUleGuA9G/2dsb2JhbABehFsBvRCGEgKCAAEBAQEBAWaEbQEBBCNVEQsYAgIFFgsCAgkDAgECAUUTCAKIK7FNjT6DWwEBCAIlgQGFJoRNhQyCNYJZAQSYRYFXjE2JM4Vpj1JUg3CKfgEBAQ
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/38.8.0
In-Reply-To: <5756f040$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: <5757D261.1060006@rece.vub.ac.be>
X-Mailman-Original-References: <a1ff5170-e059-4379-b16a-d9eff8bc60a0@googlegroups.com> <87mvn22veg.fsf@rudin.co.uk> <13108bea-6750-443b-bee8-0532aba8b338@googlegroups.com> <CAG93HwG9pHJ_gtFcZhq5PCazwU4GTWeyqU8H=gLmoVR2h6-sUw@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.129.1464969297.1839.python-list@python.org> <c0c6b56a-64ac-4cb3-9ee1-076fdc12634b@googlegroups.com> <5753c89b$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1465148542.2670061.628500777.62F1EFE1@webmail.messagingengine.com> <mailman.12.1465148550.2306.python-list@python.org> <5754f36b$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1465186088.3554819.628831041.19D0DC8D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <mailman.20.1465186091.2306.python-list@python.org> <575599f4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <drn56cFn10fU1@mid.individual.net> <57569f6a$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <5756BED8.2000304@rece.vub.ac.be> <mailman.57.1465302781.2306.python-list@python.org> <5756f040$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:109661

Op 07-06-16 om 18:03 schreef Steven D'Aprano:
> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 10:32 pm, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> That people often use the shortcut "x is 999" doesn't make the statement
>> wrong that variables are essentially references in Python.
> No, I'm sorry, you're wrong, variables are essentially arrays of bits in
> Python.

No they are not. The difference between variables as references and variables
as containers is an abstract notions that comes to light in the semantics
of the assignment, however these semantics are implemented.

Talking about arrays of bits is talking about a specific implementation. You
seem unable to think of a reference as an abstract model.

-- 
Antoon Pardon