Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!newsfeed1.swip.net!uio.no!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages.': 0.04; 'interpreter.': 0.07; 'arrays': 0.09; 'explanation': 0.09; 'objects,': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'question.': 0.14; 'attributes,': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'objects.': 0.16; 'roy': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'feb': 0.22; 'code,': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; "aren't": 0.24; 'instance,': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'question': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'references': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'subject:list': 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'object.': 0.31; 'themselves': 0.32; 'not.': 0.33; 'actual': 0.34; 'advice': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'rather': 0.38; 'extremely': 0.39; 'refer': 0.63; 'smith': 0.68; 'clearer': 0.84; 'etc,': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.92 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=daly2a40Io5ThLZjYC+7xDZUe57z5ZOtctudvE+s/6w=; b=bFI69TD4RH8zqyGUfNTIxTdXEtLM/waXU4xDN4PVBtuUYfFN43a+pNhvMaL5RNFluq gMyLbzWmZRUuKFqGGO2fTnQgXNSOiG4r5r6797fcVeMNlU/eZd1H/GoxrOqTE1KuCetc 4II7UuyKhKaav/0KJkQM95uYbYV7nNCcJLDmgV+vSB/T2BeDR+puGetgjvhh4m5hN5Li REb5AtIhV1AQbLe/nbxxMP2YsiX8d2g2EbpfO9SVK+e6E0rcIQeIavx/ucxueSFk3c6E j4pXjvCt6scEa0BWn+3Oz242fq3DPqtq78YOnDlg/pWuOLPh5oa18yGEcX4D9XfQnQoV TnpA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.98.3 with SMTP id ee3mr23456258pbb.31.1392600398267; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 17:26:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <13208de8-0f85-4e60-b059-dc087c8fda41@googlegroups.com> <52fefccc$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <52ff0dc5$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:26:38 +1100 Subject: Re: Explanation of list reference From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1392600406 news.xs4all.nl 2831 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:45637 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:66574 On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Roy Smith wrote: >> References aren't themselves objects. Names, attributes, etc, etc, >> etc, all refer to objects. Is it clearer to use the verb "refer" >> rather than the noun "reference"? >> >> ChrisA > > I know functions are objects, but what about statements? Is the body of > a for loop an object? It is in some languages. And *that* is an extremely fair question. The best explanation I can come up with is somewhat circular: If it can be named in the code, it's an object. What that really means is that every object is first-class (contrast, for instance, C's arrays and functions), but it doesn't answer the actual question of what's an object and what's not. But my advice would be to try things in the interactive interpreter. ChrisA