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From: Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>
Subject: Re: Explanation of list reference
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:04:46 +1100
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Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:66573

Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> writes:

> In article <mailman.7074.1392591962.18130.python-list@python.org>,
>  Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>
> > Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> > > <beginner_thought> So, we have objects... and we have references
> > > to objects... but everything is an object... so does that mean
> > > references are objects too? </beginner_thought>
> > 
> > My response: No, because references are not things :-)
> > 
> > I've never known a programming beginner to express such a question. Have
> > you?
>
> You make light of Gregory's point, but he's right.  That's exactly the 
> kind of thing a beginner would get confused about.

That's exactly what I'm asking: What beginners actually do get confused
about this? What category of beginner are they, and how di different
categories of beginner approach this differently?

In other words, rather than asserting based on anecdotes, what
*actually* happens?

Let's examine what leads them to this confusion, as a starting point for
what can be done.

-- 
 \        “Odious ideas are not entitled to hide from criticism behind |
  `\          the human shield of their believers' feelings.” —Richard |
_o__)                                                         Stallman |
Ben Finney