Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'beginner': 0.05; 'beginners': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'references.': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'question.': 0.14; 'finney': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'too?': 0.16; ':-)': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'programming': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; "i've": 0.25; 'references': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; 'subject:list': 0.30; 'you?': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'handled': 0.32; 'languages': 0.32; 'becomes': 0.33; 'programmers': 0.33; 'no,': 0.35; 'objects': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'object,': 0.36; 'programming,': 0.36; 'received:com.au': 0.36; 'effort': 0.37; 'so,': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'ben': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'expensive': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'such': 0.63; 'received:125': 0.84 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Ben Finney Subject: Re: Explanation of list reference Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:05:46 +1100 References: <13208de8-0f85-4e60-b059-dc087c8fda41@googlegroups.com> <52fefccc$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <52ff0dc5$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: vmx15867.hosting24.com.au X-Public-Key-ID: 0xBD41714B X-Public-Key-Fingerprint: 9CFE 12B0 791A 4267 887F 520C B7AC 2E51 BD41 714B X-Public-Key-URL: http://www.benfinney.id.au/contact/bfinney-gpg.asc X-Post-From: Ben Finney User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:d9Rb4qtLF1o/filNKgh9hedRmvE= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1392591962 news.xs4all.nl 2841 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:44983 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:66570 Gregory Ewing writes: > Chris Angelico wrote: > > Because everything in Python is an object, and objects always are > > handled by their references. > > So, we have objects... and we have > references to objects... but everything is an object... > so does that mean references are objects too? > My response: No, because references are not things :-) I've never known a programming beginner to express such a question. Have you? Were they beginners at programming, or experienced programmers who were coming to Python with the data models of other languages already in their head? -- \ “Computer perspective on Moore's Law: Human effort becomes | `\ twice as expensive roughly every two years.” —anonymous | _o__) | Ben Finney