Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!news.swapon.de!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.006 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'programmer': 0.03; 'english.': 0.04; 'postpone': 0.07; 'objects,': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'spelled': 0.09; 'language,': 0.12; 'mostly': 0.14; "wouldn't": 0.14; 'belongs': 0.16; 'distinct': 0.16; 'finney': 0.16; 'henry': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'term.': 0.16; 'student': 0.16; 'producing': 0.19; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.23; 'fairly': 0.24; 'helpful': 0.24; 'header:X -Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'correct': 0.29; 'change,': 0.30; 'subject:list': 0.30; 'bunch': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'class': 0.32; 'beginning': 0.33; 'classes': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'definition': 0.35; 'objects': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'introducing': 0.36; 'received:com.au': 0.36; 'similar': 0.36; 'too': 0.37; 'ben': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'that,': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'most': 0.60; 'first': 0.61; 'advanced': 0.63; 'term': 0.63; 'skip:n 10': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'skip:\xe2 10': 0.65; 'natural': 0.68; 'anything.': 0.68; '8bit%:46': 0.78; 'concept.': 0.84; 'received:125': 0.84; 'equipped': 0.91; 'ultimate': 0.93 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Ben Finney Subject: Re: Explanation of list reference Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 00:59:52 +1100 References: <13208de8-0f85-4e60-b059-dc087c8fda41@googlegroups.com> <52fefccc$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <52ff0dc5$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87d2iomrsg.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: vmx15867.hosting24.com.au X-Public-Key-ID: 0xBD41714B X-Public-Key-Fingerprint: 9CFE 12B0 791A 4267 887F 520C B7AC 2E51 BD41 714B X-Public-Key-URL: http://www.benfinney.id.au/contact/bfinney-gpg.asc X-Post-From: Ben Finney User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:5Gwe9COPemfxpFdHBGUugEb81ro= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1392472805 news.xs4all.nl 2919 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:39199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:66437 Marko Rauhamaa writes: > Anyway, an object is a fairly advanced and abstract concept. It is a concept that, in natural language, has the huge advantage of producing correct inferences most of the time. You don't need to give a formal definition when first introducing the term “object”. Just use it, and the student will produce inferences: * an object is a distinct concrete entity * an object is distinct from other objects * an object may or may not change, but remains the same object * an object belongs to a class of similar objects, and is different from objects of different classes * an object has behaviours that are mostly the same as other objects of the same class None of this needs to be spelled out when the term is introduced; all of it will follow from the connotations of the term “object” in English. > A beginning programmer wouldn't be equipped to understand the ultimate > abstraction; an object is too all-encompassing to express anything. Nevertheless, “object” as a term in normal English will produce a bunch of helpful inferences, and avoid the need for coming up with some less-familiar term. It will also allow you to postpone a formal definition until later. -- \ “Try to learn something about everything and everything about | `\ something.” —Thomas Henry Huxley | _o__) | Ben Finney