Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!1.eu.feeder.erje.net!bcyclone04.am1.xlned.com!bcyclone04.am1.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'pycon': 0.03; 'heavily': 0.04; 'fixes': 0.05; '*is*': 0.09; 'considered.': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:2.7': 0.09; 'vast': 0.09; 'bug': 0.10; 'python': 0.10; 'jan': 0.11; 'volunteer': 0.11; '2.7': 0.13; '*any*': 0.16; 'cares': 0.16; 'programmers,': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'released.': 0.16; 'subject:non': 0.16; 'thread.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'fixed.': 0.18; 'developer': 0.20; 'fix': 0.21; 'year,': 0.22; '3.x': 0.22; 'lawrence': 0.22; 'spring': 0.22; '(or': 0.23; 'patch': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'all.': 0.24; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'developers': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints- To:1': 0.26; 'bugs': 0.27; 'right.': 0.27; 'separate': 0.27; 'question': 0.27; 'use?': 0.29; 'volunteers': 0.29; 'asked': 0.29; 'initially': 0.30; 'normally': 0.30; 'programmers': 0.30; 'users.': 0.31; 'another': 0.32; 'core': 0.32; 'aside': 0.32; 'maybe': 0.33; 'point': 0.33; 'is?': 0.33; 'gets': 0.35; 'done': 0.35; 'should': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'release': 0.37; 'doing': 0.38; 'summer': 0.38; 'anything': 0.38; 'why': 0.39; '2010,': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'subject:-': 0.39; 'build': 0.40; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'mark': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'personally': 0.61; 'ending': 0.63; 'reviews': 0.63; 'more': 0.63; "they're": 0.66; 'situation': 0.67; 'reply': 0.68; 'presented': 0.72; 'background:': 0.81; 'viewpoints': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.91 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: Should non-security 2.7 bugs be fixed? Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 21:34:21 -0400 References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-98-114-97-173.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 46 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1437269689 news.xs4all.nl 2887 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:47428 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl X-Received-Bytes: 5405 X-Received-Body-CRC: 1473482203 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:94080 On 7/18/2015 8:27 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 19/07/2015 00:36, Terry Reedy wrote: >> I asked the following as an off-topic aside in a reply on another >> thread. I got one response which presented a point I had not considered. >> I would like more viewpoints from 2.7 users. >> >> Background: each x.y.0 release normally gets up to 2 years of bugfixes, >> until x.(y+1).0 is released. For 2.7, released summer 2010, the bugfix >> period was initially extended to 5 years, ending about now. At the >> spring pycon last year, the period was extended to 10 years, with an >> emphasis on security and build fixed. My general question is what other >> fixes should be made? Some specific forms of this question are the >> following. >> >> If the vast majority of Python programmers are focused on 2.7, why are >> volunteers to help fix 2.7 bugs so scarce? >> >> Does they all consider it perfect (or sufficient) as is? >> >> Should the core developers who do not personally use 2.7 stop >> backporting, because no one cares if they do? >> > > Programmers don't much like doing maintainance work when they're paid to > do it, so why would they volunteer to do it? Right. So I am asking: if a 3.x user volunteers a 3.x patch and a 3.x core developer reviews and edits the patch until it is ready to commit, why should either of them volunteer to do a 2.7 backport that they will not use? I am suggesting that if there are 10x as many 2.7only programmers as 3.xonly programmers, and none of the 2.7 programmers is willing to do the backport *of an already accepted patch*, then maybe it should not be done at all. > Then even if you do the > work to fix *ANY* bug there is no guarantee that it gets committed. I am discussing the situation where there *is* a near guarantee (if the backport works and does not break anything and has not been so heavily revised as to require a separate review). -- Terry Jan Reedy