Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Cameron Simpson Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: From email addresses sometimes strange on this list - was Re: [beginner] What's wrong? Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 17:03:45 +1000 Lines: 69 Message-ID: References: <20160408070345.GA17537@cskk.homeip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 8IVwObQ/85L8xgxEiuIoiQKGWrRMNMEx4cV1ldNjQQCw== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'url:bitbucket': 0.05; 'host,': 0.07; 'hosts': 0.07; 'processing.': 0.07; 'scripts': 0.09; '(default': 0.09; 'script,': 0.09; 'separately': 0.09; 'spec': 0.09; 'subject:addresses': 0.09; 'example:': 0.10; 'python': 0.10; 'mailman': 0.10; '2016': 0.16; '>on': 0.16; 'bit.': 0.16; 'from:addr:cs': 0.16; 'from:addr:zip.com.au': 0.16; 'from:name:cameron simpson': 0.16; 'message-id:@cskk.homeip.net': 0.16; 'newsgroups:': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'recipe': 0.16; 'recipes': 0.16; 'reply-to:': 0.16; 'reversed': 0.16; 'sed': 0.16; 'simpson': 0.16; 'skip:f 60': 0.16; 'stuff,': 0.16; 'subject:beginner': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'subject:] ': 0.19; 'to:name:python-list@python.org': 0.20; 'fix': 0.21; '(the': 0.22; 'gateway': 0.22; 'latter': 0.22; 'lawrence': 0.22; 'cheers,': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'decide': 0.23; 'bit': 0.23; 'wrote': 0.23; 'insert': 0.23; 'slightly': 0.23; 'this:': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'header': 0.24; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.26; 'subject:list': 0.26; 'chris': 0.26; 'equivalent': 0.27; 'eating': 0.29; 'itself,': 0.29; 'repair': 0.29; 'unchanged': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'posts': 0.30; 'rules': 0.31; 'probably': 0.31; 'another': 0.32; 'related': 0.32; 'addresses': 0.32; 'michael': 0.33; 'usually': 0.33; 'tue,': 0.34; 'lists': 0.34; 'ones': 0.35; 'lists.': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; "isn't": 0.35; 'sometimes': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'possible.': 0.36; 'apple': 0.36; 'hosted': 0.36; "wasn't": 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'forwarded': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'signature': 0.37; 'charset :us-ascii': 0.37; 'received:localdomain': 0.38; 'names': 0.38; 'stuff': 0.38; 'mailing': 0.38; 'means': 0.39; 'why': 0.39; 'sure': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'from:': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'mark': 0.40; 'called': 0.40; 'collection': 0.60; 'your': 0.60; 'skip:u 10': 0.61; 'more': 0.63; 'cameron': 0.66; 'past,': 0.66; 'python-list': 0.66; 'readers': 0.66; 'dkim': 0.84; 'eg:': 0.84; 'fortunately': 0.84; 'messed': 0.84; 'subject:this': 0.85; 'all-in-one': 0.91; 'subject:From': 0.97 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: <20160408070345.GA17537@cskk.homeip.net> X-Mailman-Original-References: Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:106656 On 05Apr2016 08:58, Chris Angelico wrote: >On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Michael Torrie wrote: >> Usenet-orginating posts look fine. For example: >> >> From: Marko Rauhamaa >> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python >> >> Whereas email ones are sometimes looking like this: >> >> From: Mark Lawrence via Python-list >> Reply-To: Mark Lawrence > >Ohhhh.... That probably explains it. It's because of Yahoo and mailing >lists. Yahoo did stuff that breaks stuff, so Mailman breaks stuff >differently to make sure that only Yahoo people get messed up a bit. >It means their names and addresses get slightly obscured, but delivery >works. It is yahoo and mailman and a funky spec called DKIM or DMARC (related, not identical). This makes a signature related to the originating host, and if mailman forwarded the message unchanged the signature would break - people honouring it would decide the mailman hosts were forging Mark's email. Fortunately you can fix all this up on receipt, which is why I wasn't noticing this myself (I had in the past, and wrote myself a recipe for repair - my mail folders contain the reapired messages). For Mark's messages I am using these mailfiler rules (the latter I think): from:s/.*/$reply_to/ X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:/. from:python-list@python.org,python-ideas@python.org,tutor@python.org from:s/.*/$reply_to/ DKIM-Signature:/. from:python-list@python.org,python-ideas@python.org,tutor@python.org which just replaces the contents of the From: line with the contents of the Reply-To: line for this kind of message via the python lists. Yahoo do something equivalent but more agressive to lists hosted on yahoo itself, such as sed-users. For that I have a couple of scripts - fix-dkim-from: https://bitbucket.org/cameron_simpson/css/src/tip/bin/fix-dkim-from which is a sed script, and fix-dkim-from-swap: https://bitbucket.org/cameron_simpson/css/src/tip/bin/fix-dkim-from-swap The former works on messages whose From: header is enough - it can be reversed in place. The latter is for messages where the from isn't enough, but there is another header contianing the original (default "X-Original-From"). You can use these in systems like procmail, eg: :0whf * from:.* | fix-dkim-from It is annoying, and I'm happy to help people utilise these recipes if possible. Most all-in-one mail readers (Thunderbird, GMail, Apple Mail etc) are a bit too dumb, but if you can do your mail collection separately from your reader you can usually insert something in the processing. It is nowhere near as annoying as the usenet<->mail gateway which is eating message-ids; that is truly uncivilised. Cheers, Cameron Simpson