Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder3.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.021 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:: [': 0.04; 'hiding': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; '[*]': 0.16; 'cc:name:python list': 0.16; 'janssen': 0.16; 'subject:OOP': 0.16; 'subject:object': 0.16; 'subject:possible': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'subject:type': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'module': 0.19; '2001': 0.19; 'subject:] ': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**1': 0.23; 'sends': 0.24; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.24; 'least': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'ideal': 0.29; 'scale': 0.29; 'involving': 0.30; 'went': 0.31; 'towards': 0.31; 'alan': 0.31; 'version': 0.36; '14,': 0.36; 'scheme': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'pm,': 0.38; 'quote': 0.39; 'received:71': 0.39; 'signal': 0.60; 'header:Message-Id:1': 0.63; 'subject:The': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'to:addr:gmail.com': 0.65; 'details,': 0.68; 'designers': 0.74; 'describes': 0.84; 'receiver': 0.84; '2013,': 0.91 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.ccs.neu.edu Subject: Re: [TYPES] The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Matthias Felleisen In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 09:50:38 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: To: Mark Janssen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Cc: types-list@lists.seas.upenn.edu, Python List X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1366035560 news.xs4all.nl 2596 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:49097 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:43625 On Apr 14, 2013, at 11:48 PM, Mark Janssen wrote: > After the 2001 "type/class unification" , it went towards Alan Kay's = ideal=20 Are you sure? Remember Kay's two motivations [*], which he so elegantly = describes with "[the] large scale one was to find a better module scheme = for complex systems involving hiding of details, and the small scale one = was to find a more flexible version of assignment, and then to try to = eliminate it altogether." At least for me, this quote sends a signal to = language designers that is still looking for a receiver -- Matthias [*] http://gagne.homedns.org/~tgagne/contrib/EarlyHistoryST.html