Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.redatomik.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'operator': 0.03; 'guido': 0.05; 'transform': 0.05; 'stops': 0.07; "object's": 0.09; 'received:openend.se': 0.09; 'received:theraft.openend.se': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.10; 'def': 0.14; '>that': 0.16; 'cc:addr:lac': 0.16; 'cc:addr:openend.se': 0.16; 'did.': 0.16; 'from:addr:lac': 0.16; 'from:addr:openend.se': 0.16; 'from:name:laura creighton': 0.16; 'invokes': 0.16; 'message- id:@fido.openend.se': 0.16; 'received:89.233': 0.16; 'received:89.233.217': 0.16; 'received:89.233.217.133': 0.16; 'received:fido': 0.16; 'received:fido.openend.se': 0.16; 'thoughts?': 0.16; 'looked': 0.16; 'laura': 0.18; 'variable': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.21; 'cc:2**1': 0.22; 'parameter': 0.22; 'rid': 0.22; '2015': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'parameters': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.28; '-0700,': 0.29; 'dictionary': 0.29; 'name?': 0.29; 'received:se': 0.29; 'url:2008': 0.29; 'url:se': 0.29; 'cc:no real name:2**1': 0.29; 'getting': 0.33; 'class': 0.33; 'symbol': 0.33; 'changing': 0.34; 'subject:?': 0.34; 'list,': 0.36; 'created': 0.36; 'subject:" ': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.37; 'tue,': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'self': 0.38; 'method': 0.39; 'seem': 0.39; 'even': 0.61; "you've": 0.61; 'header:Message-Id:1': 0.62; 'become': 0.62; 'genuine': 0.63; 'needs,': 0.63; 'url:10': 0.79; 'received:89': 0.80; 'confusing': 0.84; 'subject:self': 0.84 To: zipher cc: python-list@python.org, lac@openend.se From: Laura Creighton Subject: Re: should "self" be changed? In-Reply-To: Message from zipher of "Tue, 26 May 2015 09:37:29 -0700." <551c8229-f426-45f0-a0ee-fdad1b161f59@googlegroups.com> References: <551c8229-f426-45f0-a0ee-fdad1b161f59@googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <19536.1432659439.1@fido> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 18:57:19 +0200 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.9 (theraft.openend.se [89.233.217.130]); Tue, 26 May 2015 18:57:20 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1432659453 news.xs4all.nl 2933 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38076 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:91254 In a message of Tue, 26 May 2015 09:37:29 -0700, zipher writes: >Would it be prudent to rid the long-standing "argument" (pun unintended) = about self and the ulterior spellings of it, by changing it into a symbol = rather than a name? = > >Something like: > >class MyClass(object): > > def __init__(@): > @.dummy =3D None > >OR, even better, getting *rid of it* in the parameter list, so it stops c= onfusing people about how many parameters a method needs, and transform it= into a true *operator*. > >class MyClass(object): > > def __init__(): #takes no arguments! > @.dummy =3D None #the @ invokes the class object's dictionary > >That would seem to be a nice solution to the problem, really. It doesn't= become PERLish because you've made it into a genuine operator -- "self" w= as always a non-variable that looked like a variable and hence created an = itch that couldn't be scratched. > >Anyone else have any thoughts? Guido did. :) http://neopythonic.blogspot.se/2008/10/why-explicit-self-has-to-stay.html Laura