Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 08:54:35 +1100 Lines: 51 Message-ID: References: <32971984.pfH099DPo1@PointedEars.de> <2632865.Kq7QuO2XSa@PointedEars.de> <52076a04-4803-4cd5-b86a-65d8fdc81aea@googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de dkY9y2aKm4qRtwsig+YSvg7n10ZT6JNzjKY1AjfiC5Jw== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'exercise': 0.03; 'received:209.85.223': 0.03; 'modify': 0.04; 'binary': 0.05; 'cpython': 0.05; 'python3': 0.05; '21,': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'subject:Windows': 0.09; 'bsd': 0.09; 'mercurial': 0.09; 'patch.': 0.09; 'bug': 0.10; 'modification': 0.15; 'clone': 0.16; 'command;': 0.16; 'compiler,': 0.16; 'freedom.': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'sudo': 0.16; 'system-wide': 0.16; 'useless': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'linux,': 0.18; '2015': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'fix': 0.21; 'fixing': 0.22; 'provided,': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'code,': 0.23; 'dec': 0.23; 'patch': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'install': 0.25; 'command': 0.26; 'linux': 0.26; 'possibility': 0.27; 'separate': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'built.': 0.29; 'forces': 0.29; 'system?': 0.29; 'windows,': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'system,': 0.30; 'too.': 0.30; 'work.': 0.30; 'probably': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.32; 'software,': 0.32; 'run': 0.33; 'options': 0.33; 'source': 0.33; 'url:python': 0.33; 'culture': 0.33; 'similar': 0.33; 'running': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'done': 0.35; 'authors': 0.35; 'licensed': 0.35; 'machines': 0.35; 'mine': 0.35; 'replace': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; '(and': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'really': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'operating': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.38; 'someone': 0.38; 'end': 0.39; 'means': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'rather': 0.39; 'still': 0.40; 'software': 0.40; 'easy': 0.60; 'your': 0.60; 'above,': 0.63; 'more': 0.63; 'different': 0.63; 'benefit': 0.66; 'packages,': 0.66; 'talking': 0.67; 'car': 0.72; 'brand': 0.75; 'as:': 0.79; '3.6': 0.84; 'abandon': 0.84; 'apt- get': 0.84; 'build-dep': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'hunt': 0.84; 'precompiled': 0.84; 'recompile': 0.84; 'url:cpython': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91; 'urge': 0.91; 'ads': 0.97 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=77cMTP3ptu8WHGHQgyba8Akq5zNNr/b5HNOSJSRa/jw=; b=Dz9hIv3FBtwRfSPFa8pj7i1TiIaZ8jK5rYI+/72xiP3UBQe1BIfXgLm+8AoAyvADNZ zrTjj4i2onf/WxwRJaa4Cr6cdTxaklZ+uLPc6DUlSJ5m7N5LABtGQJeuFc5pENzVxlEk 7BXCjGiHe7nV+Cq7kPdVsr/rHq5OHip1SlDv92cRDzfKSJ9025hAhHSaOgW4YLppsB5R M0vDWANmUt/pF2cnmylyLoj/OzQgSG+8iDtPqDChS6/Cyqp66bmwAW0rU75wRDrlg4zj HF2+z94GZzbXr26zPyDvLdAFYD7EcmWYIA+6TNf6xmlsQkJOcGQUyvM8u/1shrNRTkJ6 W0tg== X-Received: by 10.107.163.146 with SMTP id m140mr14898712ioe.19.1450648475203; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 13:54:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52076a04-4803-4cd5-b86a-65d8fdc81aea@googlegroups.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:100635 On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Josef Pktd wrote: >> Mine was not a snide remark, but the truth. Those other operating syste= ms I >> was talking about do give users more freedom. For example, the freedom = to >> use it on as many different machines as you like without an extra licens= e, >> to see the source code, to modify it, and to redistribute the modificati= on >> including an attribution to yourself. > > "Richtige M=C3=A4nner nehmen Pitralon" everything else is "unreal" > > I'm writing BSD licensed software, but I never felt the urge to change mo= re than a few options in the operating system, and was never interested in = the "freedom" to fix the kernel (and I was never interested in fixing my ca= r either). > That's true of me, too. I run Debian Linux on most of my systems, and for the overwhelming majority of packages, I simply accept the precompiled binary that's available from their repositories, rather than tinkering with it myself. But the mere possibility that someone recompile their own software forces authors and vendors to remain honest; it's pretty useless adding in nagware or ads if anyone can simply compile them out again. Plus, the general culture of GNU, Linux, *BSD, and similar ecosystems means that when you *do* want to compile your own software, it's really easy. Want to run CPython 3.6 on Windows? Go hunt down a compiler, fiddle around with it, and see if you can get everything to work. Want to run CPython 3.6 on a Debian system? It's probably as simple as: $ sudo apt-get build-dep python3 $ sudo apt-get install mercurial $ hg clone https://hg.python.org/cpython $ cd cpython $ make Want to try out that interesting-looking patch off the bug tracker? Same as the above, plus one little 'patch' command to apply the patch. Either way, you end up with the main "python3" command still being the one that Debian provided, and "./python" running the brand new one you just built. (If you *do* want to replace your system-wide Python, that's just one more command; but it's easy to keep them separate until you're done testing.) I'm not going to force anyone to abandon Windows, but freedom does benefit even people who don't directly exercise it, so I would still encourage people to consider a culture of freedom. ChrisA