Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: alex wright Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 15:21:59 -0400 Lines: 64 Message-ID: References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com> <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de rkxElBlsyNlh7B0wE5w/8QoqNOKrgkWfTOzcjfVssKYA== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; '16,': 0.03; 'received:209.85.223': 0.03; 'column': 0.07; 'dev': 0.07; 'great.': 0.07; 'subject:PEP': 0.07; 'width': 0.07; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.09; 'formatted': 0.09; 'length.': 0.09; 'reliably': 0.09; 'replied': 0.09; 'rigorous': 0.09; '(but': 0.15; '*only*': 0.16; '2016': 0.16; 'columns': 0.16; 'confusion': 0.16; 'modules,': 0.16; 'pep8': 0.16; 'programmable': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; '>>>': 0.20; 'all,': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'machine': 0.21; 'environments': 0.22; 'visible': 0.22; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.22; 'bit': 0.23; 'sat,': 0.23; 'split': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'module': 0.25; "i've": 0.25; 'rest': 0.26; 'coding': 0.27; 'mostly': 0.27; 'separate': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'function': 0.28; 'helpful.': 0.29; 'larry': 0.29; 'screen.': 0.29; 'character': 0.29; 'url:mailman': 0.30; 'code': 0.30; 'especially': 0.32; 'screen': 0.32; 'computer.': 0.32; 'maybe': 0.33; 'run': 0.33; 'url:python': 0.33; 'largely': 0.33; 'open': 0.33; 'url:listinfo': 0.34; 'file': 0.34; 'worked': 0.34; 'list': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'could': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'project': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'agree': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.38; 'wrong': 0.38; 'why': 0.39; 'test': 0.39; 'subject:the': 0.39; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'still': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'hope': 0.61; 'entire': 0.61; 'wide': 0.61; 'real': 0.62; 'matter': 0.63; 'companies': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'limit': 0.65; 'judge': 0.66; 'limited.': 0.67; '100': 0.79; 'century': 0.84; 'inventor': 0.84; 'ugly,': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91; 'divided': 0.93; 'employ': 0.95; 'mr.': 0.99 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:cc; bh=61nWPooDggWXIMDrmvgAFt6Jd7d2JehzGLZvC8oyi10=; b=U4WPtpUB6ete+POaXr7BaMG0JMNWA4ieLAufsBQvNOMND2Au9u59c5++2R6jXQzhuy OInM8IP/64NxZNOjp6fg6GmFmlf/gMwNW0HEjdlIFc78MkJ2KjB2oxbQs5jDHBIcbNyj 4b4JjVfm9YLPEGJGS/tfzcfGlJd7tOUf1TXy9SDk/zquzZtUwZQ8qJjBMaz8PE9p97Xy M0Jypj8Ho4Ev4OHfnrBhyCP35zIHfZMcPN7jk0IKryBAWbaNb9DnRA+LLglsum5sL3jm DA26EBFBYFjPNm3dFX7WIDAJHtqnZSKoC/wKpYRndA3mFVpV5cnFXRBXpZQRiyROpPya Serw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:cc; bh=61nWPooDggWXIMDrmvgAFt6Jd7d2JehzGLZvC8oyi10=; b=XGsxsda38avDzhXL5lhpxQVaoGuK+/ZMwieOWd6xbRKnx0RlCbFRv0Vj7LmhmUIlZl SES/GiFVTWtlGs9av2+RtncleR0yuPjup7Pd3Rjte3Gb1+7SujM/YV6DHUHUDpua/gkS xS2Kosc4fTqBdetb5rB4OBPzl8t35uFGRhMbiXQ0in31pEZemHAn2pq23aKf29Cswd2M PaaeROHVnCuFRy6LMLNHEmmWEv80+yzbLvctN0EpzRP1NQ6SGBPNnI3HrauM1LGYbMDO UDNT8pbbvSl+2ok7O/2f6maXSbKNa133pVptentrGct4aS2USXWvcnKYEUhpyN+pjtcu J+Lg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FVwmDN1OP6mggguiuuAFIk1RDNkkBWMvEgHR5cbeLoefXSQw+oA79IgbXc2N+qBPbPLA/CLpCOTdccy5A== X-Received: by 10.107.150.8 with SMTP id y8mr28106256iod.66.1460834558958; Sat, 16 Apr 2016 12:22:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 15:38:18 -0400 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.21 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: X-Mailman-Original-References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com> <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:107109 We employ a pretty hard limit of 100. This way I can reliably have 1 module split vertically with a test or configuration file open or 3 separate modules, etc. I find 80 to be a bit strict, although in the past I've been in unfortunate environments where it was helpful. The rest of PEP8 is largely adhered to wherever possible and it's been wonderful. When I first came to the project it had no real standard and was mostly formatted at the whims of the one dev working on it. It was a mess. The team has grown significantly internationally and a codified standard not rooted in any of our habits is great. (I've never replied to this list so I hope I don't goof up.) On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 2:18 PM, BartC wrote: > On 16/04/2016 17:58, Larry Martell wrote: > >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa >> wrote: >> >>> Larry Martell : >>> >>> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean >>>> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be >>>> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it >>>> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length. >>>> >>> >>> Agh, I was with you until your last remark. >>> >>> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous >>> principles I judge coding style on. >>> >>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the >>> screen. >>> >> >> if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my >> 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't. >> > > There are reasons why 'broadsheet' newspapers don't have a single wide > column spanning the entire width of the page, but are divided into multiple > columns. > > (But I think 80 columns is a bit limited. Maybe 100 or 132.) > > -- > Bartc > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- "On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -Charles Babbage, 19th century English mathematician, philosopher, inventor and mechanical engineer who originated the concept of a programmable computer.