Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail
From: Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: The Cost of Dynamism (was Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster?)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:09:15 +0000
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <mailman.59.1458749712.2244.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.8.1457732171.12893.python-list@python.org> <nbvqg5$3cm$1@dont-email.me> <mailman.23.1457749230.12893.python-list@python.org> <56e44258$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.46.1457819135.12893.python-list@python.org> <8737rvxs89.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nc2a7s$6dv$1@dont-email.me> <mailman.48.1457831488.12893.python-list@python.org> <nc4ffn$f6s$1@dont-email.me> <56e7483d$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <nc7kjr$jj8$1@dont-email.me> <ncnhp9$tt7$1@dont-email.me> <ncnip4$1pb$1@ger.gmane.org> <mailman.422.1458524141.12893.python-list@python.org> <ncnkma$d1i$1@dont-email.me> <mailman.425.1458526280.12893.python-list@python.org> <56ef9787$0$1516$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.433.1458546438.12893.python-list@python.org> <56f02196$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <85h9fxene8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de zxgD17rwJzWVWzVBJ6DfBwGIIBZNr8x+KdDu0ab1Jyyw==
Return-Path: <python-python-list@m.gmane.org>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'context': 0.05; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.05; 'performs': 0.07; 'complaining': 0.09; 'here?': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:which': 0.09; '\xe2\x80\x94': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'python.': 0.11; "hasn't": 0.15; '2016': 0.16; 'badly.': 0.16; 'received:194.126': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'slow,': 0.16; 'subject:?)': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'beginner': 0.18; 'language': 0.19; '>>>': 0.20; 'lawrence': 0.22; 'referring': 0.22; 'programming': 0.22; 'performing': 0.23; "python's": 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.26; 'specifically': 0.28; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.30; 'somebody': 0.30; 'everyone': 0.31; 'knows': 0.32; 'language.': 0.32; 'problem': 0.33; "d'aprano": 0.33; "he's": 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'knowledge': 0.35; 'should': 0.36; 'instead': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'times.': 0.38; 'someone': 0.38; 'offered': 0.38; 'resources': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'mark': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'subject:The': 0.61; 'received:194': 0.61; 'show': 0.62; 'skip:n 10': 0.62; 'strange': 0.63; 'different': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'mar': 0.65; 'numerous': 0.66; 'teaching': 0.69; '\xe2\x80\x93': 0.72; 'claims.': 0.84; 'expresses': 0.84; 'gains': 0.84; 'idiomatic': 0.84; 'prefers': 0.84; 'pythonistas,': 0.84; 'faith': 0.91; 'convinced': 0.93; 'improvement': 0.93
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 248.80.126.194.pool.dsl.daisyplc.net
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.0
In-Reply-To: <85h9fxene8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:105560

On 23/03/2016 06:09, Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 06:47 pm, Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>>> Bart can show good faith by *learning* idiomatic Python, with the
>>> humility of a beginner. And also by refraining from rhetoric about
>>> how bad Python's performance is, until he gains experience to make
>>> those claims.
>>
>> "Humility of a beginner"... what a strange phrase to use about
>> somebody who has been programming for decades.
>
> What a strange reading of what I wrote. Clearly I'm referring to the
> fact Bart is a beginner in Python.
>
> To show good faith in learning Python – if indeed that is what Bart
> wants, which I'm not convinced of given how much he prefers to talk
> about a different private programming language instead – then he should
> be taking advantage of the teaching resources that have been offered
> numerous times.
>
>> What exactly is the problem here? Is it that Bart hasn't earned the
>> right to say what we all know, that Python is slow, because he's an
>> outsider?
>
> The problem is that Bart simultaneously is a beginner at Python, and
> expresses astonishment that everyone shrugs when Bart's
> dreadfully-written code performs so badly.
>
> Good faith is contradicted by asserting knowledge of Python, complaining
> about how some deliberately non-idiomatic Python code is performing
> poorly, dismissing suggestions for improvement — specifically in the
> context of someone who admittedly knows so little about Python.
>

+1

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence