Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.015 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.02; 'python,': 0.02; 'newbie': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'lately': 0.07; 'puts': 0.07; 'think,': 0.07; 'blue': 0.09; 'etc).': 0.09; 'mind,': 0.09; 'plug': 0.09; 'works.': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'aren\x92t': 0.16; 'at.': 0.16; 'bit.': 0.16; 'caches': 0.16; 'expressions,': 0.16; 'interpreter,': 0.16; 'jython,': 0.16; 'perceived': 0.16; 'personally,': 0.16; 'later': 0.20; 'coding': 0.22; 'alternate': 0.24; 'days,': 0.24; 'looks': 0.24; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'topic': 0.29; 'nature': 0.30; 'especially': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'aligned': 0.31; 'are.': 0.31; 'bunch': 0.31; 'libraries': 0.31; 'talked': 0.31; 'figure': 0.32; 'quite': 0.32; 'open': 0.33; 'everyone': 0.33; '(e.g.': 0.33; 'projects.': 0.33; 'core': 0.34; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'building': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'version': 0.36; 'really': 0.36; 'in.': 0.36; 'doing': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'clear': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'message- id:@gmail.com': 0.38; 'branch': 0.38; 'tools,': 0.38; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.38; 'recent': 0.39; 'explain': 0.39; 'moving': 0.39; 'though,': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'course': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'making': 0.63; 'header:Message- Id:1': 0.63; 'real': 0.63; 'education': 0.64; 'forward': 0.65; 'relatively': 0.65; 'talking': 0.65; 'wall': 0.65; 'charset:windows-1252': 0.65; 'side': 0.67; 'debate': 0.68; 'internet': 0.71; 'online': 0.71; 'adoption': 0.84; 'dent': 0.84; 'doesn\x92t': 0.84; 'i\x92ve': 0.84; 'can\x92t': 0.91; 'hate': 0.91; 'hopes': 0.91; 'wanting': 0.93; 'period.': 0.95; 'taught': 0.96 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jAWjN+e0k2pnFMkHVjLZKSzM96wjp3ow417plMfWIeE=; b=oMkeqVLwaIxn6978OvgSsmLrdh6Yax7cTKelEOp2N3TQnyaWTnis+nuMrbQUljSnkY U85DBeNpiRofq1nGkWPLTf1VC9KCQ46jpTNRgbORv3q0o8081C4l6pWvP87CSujfByaL BgtO46a5/uafAHgVWE+5k6G6DbB6x0cOxMOhZeHcn0ZlidrDLg1o0IAHAv11sczI2dM7 yXshcav5AMdr9hJvbtsYNN9Gd89i3ySD+7sFtRoQJuVxXojzqYst/vf0QgjQYe7oicm9 OAaJJwkeHX4M7UiSP48+FWHkolKArS7Od8rUEKcPZDpfPqFoGLzWOW2Wn4LXiM5OszBG u27Q== X-Received: by 10.68.237.133 with SMTP id vc5mr26738350pbc.92.1390331085561; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:04:45 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.1 \(1827\)) Subject: Re: Python 3.x adoption From: Travis Griggs In-Reply-To: <95e6f032-cd40-483b-a649-676d9a56808a@googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:04:40 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <3f88a958-4f3f-476c-bc9f-1b38ac0d084b@googlegroups.com> <95e6f032-cd40-483b-a649-676d9a56808a@googlegroups.com> To: python-list@python.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1827) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1390331095 news.xs4all.nl 2945 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:49339 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:64441 Looks like the 2/3 topic has lain fallow for a couple of days, gotta = keep it burning=85 I=92m a relatively recent python convert, but been coding and talking = to others about coding for many moons on this big blue orb. I think the = industrial side of this debate has been talked up quite a bit. We have = tools, we have the wall of shame/superpowers for libraries and projects. I think the desires of the core of people moving python forward are = pretty clear to those of us that plug in. Move to 3. Period. We can = debate, hate it, go on all day, but they=92ve been pretty steady. I=92ve had a bunch of interns around me lately though, wanting to get = into python, and this is where I find the momentum really breaks down. = If newcomers go to take an online course in python, they might try MIT=92s= Open Courseware (who doesn=92t want to learn from the illustrious MIT = after all?). They=92ll be taught Python 2, not 3. Or they might try Code = Academy. Again, they=92ll be taught 2, not 3. If the newbie googles = =93python reference=94=85 top link will be python 2. So in my mind, the wall of superpowers/shame is no longer well aligned = with where the real battlefront of adoption is at. The legacy of the = internet caches and education sites are. Personally, I have no idea why = an education site would favor a version that sooner or later they=92re = going to have to try and explain how super() works. The other area, I think, that puts a dent in perceived adoption is in = alternate interpreters. Back in the day, everyone was making some branch = of python (e.g. IronPython, Jython, Cython, PyPy, Stackless, etc). All = of them did python 2. Very few are doing python 3. Some have been = abandoned (as is the nature of research endeavors like these were), but = there doesn=92t seem to be the broad swath of people still building = alternate python expressions, especially in python 3. Being a fan of = JIT, I have big hopes for PyPy, I can=92t figure out why they aren=92t = pitching their =93cutting edge=94 interpreter, for the =93cutting edge=94 = version of python. There should be a wall of superpowers/shame for = interpreters.=