Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.redatomik.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.006 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'failing': 0.05; 'test,': 0.05; 'received:openend.se': 0.09; 'received:theraft.openend.se': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.10; 'wed,': 0.15; '"right"': 0.16; 'cc:addr:lac': 0.16; 'cc:addr:openend.se': 0.16; 'from:addr:lac': 0.16; 'from:addr:openend.se': 0.16; 'from:name:laura creighton': 0.16; 'imo,': 0.16; 'meanwhile,': 0.16; 'message-id:@fido.openend.se': 0.16; 'received:89.233': 0.16; 'received:89.233.217': 0.16; 'received:89.233.217.133': 0.16; 'received:fido': 0.16; 'received:fido.openend.se': 0.16; 'subject:OOP': 0.16; 'threw': 0.16; 'laura': 0.18; 'tests': 0.18; 'fix': 0.21; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.21; 'cc:2**1': 0.22; 'java': 0.22; 'code.': 0.23; '2015': 0.23; 'wrote': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.24; 'written': 0.24; 'least': 0.27; '-0700,': 0.29; 'factor': 0.29; 'hour.': 0.29; 'received:se': 0.29; 'cc:no real name:2**1': 0.29; 'too.': 0.30; 'branch': 0.31; 'waste': 0.31; 'window': 0.31; "i'd": 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'class': 0.33; 'done,': 0.33; 'another': 0.34; 'but': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; "didn't": 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.37; 'front': 0.38; 'green': 0.38; 'unit': 0.38; 'doing': 0.38; 'where': 0.40; 'learn': 0.60; 'even': 0.61; 'simple': 0.61; 'video': 0.61; 'header:Message-Id:1': 0.62; 'complete': 0.63; 'minutes': 0.64; 'experience.': 0.64; 'email addr:gmail.com': 0.64; 'due': 0.65; 'hate': 0.66; 'us,': 0.73; 'brand': 0.75; 'received:89': 0.80; 'life.': 0.81; 'subject:Classic': 0.84; 'teach.': 0.84; 'watched': 0.91; 'taught': 0.97 To: sohcahtoa82@gmail.com cc: python-list@python.org, lac@openend.se From: Laura Creighton Subject: Re: Classic OOP in Python In-Reply-To: Message from sohcahtoa82@gmail.com of "Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:33:43 -0700." <6944ae86-86eb-4a9b-be05-21d0be7bb206@googlegroups.com> References: <23b2fae3-91d5-486b-9898-78b34bee486f@googlegroups.com> <16dc8c92-50e3-4fc8-ae25-cbc5b13e8971@googlegroups.com> <87eglaqdca.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net><6944ae86-86eb-4a9b-be05-21d0be7bb206@googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1916.1434579755.1@fido> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:22:35 +0200 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.9 (theraft.openend.se [89.233.217.130]); Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:22:37 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1434579766 news.xs4all.nl 2893 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:34862 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:92786 In a message of Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:33:43 -0700, sohcahtoa82@gmail.com writes: >I had a Java class where we had to learn TDD, and that's the way TDD >was taught to us, and I hated it. We watched a video of this guy >explaining TDD with a hat that was red on the front and green on the >back. It involved writing a simple failing unit test, then write >code to fix it, then refactor the tests and/or code. As an in-class >exercise, we had to write an implementation of Conway's Game of Life. >I threw TDD out the window and just wrote the damn program in under >15 minutes, then another 10 minutes to write unit tests that tested >every possible code branch and several invalid inputs. Meanwhile, >the people doing TDD the "right" way didn't even have a complete >program after over an hour. The brand of TTD we were taught would >end up multiplying development time by at least a factor of 3, and by >the time you were done, at least 75% of the tests you had written >will have been removed due to rampant refactoring. IMO, that kind of >TTD is an utter waste of time. I'd hate that too. But that's not the TDD I know, or teach. Please don't write off TDD as a result of this experience. Laura