Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'immutable': 0.09; 'integers': 0.09; 'length.': 0.09; 'received:internal': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; "'int'": 0.16; 'discussed.': 0.16; 'message- id:@webmail.messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'reason.': 0.16; 'received:10.202': 0.16; 'received:10.202.2': 0.16; 'received:66.111': 0.16; 'received:66.111.4': 0.16; 'received:messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'silly': 0.16; 'subject:reference': 0.16; 'subject:versus': 0.16; 'tuple,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'drawing': 0.18; 'integer': 0.18; 'string,': 0.18; '2015': 0.20; 'sep': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'bit': 0.23; '(where': 0.23; 'interfaces': 0.23; 'references': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'sort': 0.25; '14,': 0.27; "can't": 0.32; "d'aprano": 0.33; 'int': 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'tue,': 0.34; 'but': 0.36; 'subject:" ': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'received:10': 0.37; 'really': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'received:66': 0.38; 'why': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'header:Message-Id:1': 0.61; 'personally': 0.61; 'more': 0.63; 'fact,': 0.67; 'business': 0.69 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=cIwidV6eZZhbhgpA6q/KGTaqML4=; b=Er50I6 nHP1LTZAXwQcVSaQ3KUqTJg9jdthULi3WVKJgi6zNUIUR5swLgRuzHy9yfmst0mb hK/Cu9uOVASFeMesQaT3k+SbgEDMMvWoN16Y6eQihYBPyUsDjKASJKs4y7llw4tM 4QFaCDDWXEc3WZYLJfqktfbJxxzAb6rAikYKQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=cIwidV6eZZhbhgp A6q/KGTaqML4=; b=SpN7QxtQ9yArH4Ek1Yx3MZZ0NUUzkhLjnOm7bPcxooq7fOg ltdhqszu+DtOpS80GyscI+hSqv58CQxBIZ/IPgb2TOBBoRi0x2Y0+c+rs+0SxyOM NcwpWPHEvTLfEVjKokhxT9pAnEtNijIb4F15CNIsaAJSDiECvkt0mOOMyAGI= X-Sasl-Enc: /VBmsib4FFvE7rTB61ly3bijfnxlVsvBGsNesnFq6x7B 1442252093 From: Random832 To: python-list@python.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-c76b43ce Subject: Re: Terminology: "reference" versus "pointer" Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:34:53 -0400 In-Reply-To: <55f6fdd9$0$1640$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <85mvws6z45.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <85io7g6xy4.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <85egi46wng.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <1a1a1f6a-27ce-4c1b-807a-43eabaa04abb@googlegroups.com> <04ca9d7c-d02b-4329-bd94-4d18d86b3edf@googlegroups.com> <87egi375wb.fsf@gmail.com> <87wpvu5h7f.fsf@gmail.com> <87pp1l6h9a.fsf@gmail.com> <1442187517.2372486.382584889.2ED1B071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <874mix5a63.fsf@gmail.com> <55f6fdd9$0$1640$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1442252102 news.xs4all.nl 23862 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:60889 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96578 On Mon, Sep 14, 2015, at 13:03, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 01:10 am, Random832 wrote: > > That's not true in CPython. In fact, the range object in python contains > > *four* reference boxes - one more for length. > > I really don't see why any of this is relevant to the business being > discussed. When you're drawing this sort of diagram then what references are held by an object are more important than what interfaces it implements. Personally I think it's a bit silly to insist on a diagram model where a box with an arrow in it pointing at an int object can't be represented by a box with an integer in it (where 'int' is any immutable type - string, tuple, even range), but people don't like boxes with integers in them for some reason.