Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.chainon-marquant.org!nntpfeed.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-1.proxad.net!ecngs!feeder2.ecngs.de!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.010 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'received:134': 0.05; 'raises': 0.07; 'semantic': 0.07; 'python': 0.08; 'am,': 0.12; 'syntax': 0.15; 'answer,': 0.16; 'did,': 0.16; 'multitude': 0.16; 'subject:copy': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'language': 0.17; 'seems': 0.19; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'wonder': 0.23; 'delayed': 0.23; 'all,': 0.27; 'somebody': 0.27; 'odd': 0.28; 'problem': 0.29; 'second': 0.29; 'augmented': 0.30; 'clear,': 0.30; 'conditional': 0.30; 'semantics': 0.30; 'least': 0.30; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'there': 0.33; 'assignment': 0.34; 'something': 0.35; 'requirements': 0.36; 'but': 0.37; 'steven': 0.38; 'difficult': 0.39; 'why': 0.39; 'introduced': 0.39; 'subject:: ': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'difference': 0.40; 'matter': 0.61; 'become': 0.69; 'pardon': 0.84; 'subject:write': 0.84; 'ultimately,': 0.84 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AmUMAOaiK0+GuA9G/2dsb2JhbABDh2SlDYUgAQEFOEARCxgJFg8JAwIBAgFFEwgCwESLRwEEAgECAgkEAQ0EBgEBAS4QBAMBgnQBAgELAgcEEwIEcwNCgxwElSOFRI0T Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:08:19 +0100 From: Antoon Pardon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20111110 Icedove/3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: copy on write References: <4f101f45$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <4f102bd0$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <4F107AAF.5000600@stoneleaf.us> <20120202141812.649c31d832bb15bd899eb952@johnohagan.com> <4f2a5478$0$29895$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <20120203011748.592f060f32ac79d450a2ca8d@johnohagan.com> <4f2b6ae6$0$29989$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> In-Reply-To: <4f2b6ae6$0$29989$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1328260169 news.xs4all.nl 6900 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:46642 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:19829 On 02/03/2012 06:04 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Ultimately, there is no right answer, because the multitude of > requirements are contradictory. No matter what Python did, somebody would > complain. Which makes me wonder why it was introduced at all, or at least so fast If you see the difference in speed in introducing augmented assignment vs how long it took to get conditional expression I start thinking of a bikeshed. In the first case we have something that raises semantic questions that are difficult to resolve, in the second case the semantics were clear, the big problem that delayed introduction was what syntax to use. But the second took a lot longer to become part of the language than the first, which seems very odd to me. -- Antoon Pardon