Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder5.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.015 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'programmer': 0.03; 'algorithm': 0.04; 'europython': 0.04; 'beginner': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'amounts': 0.07; 'elements.': 0.07; 'engineer.': 0.07; 'meetings.': 0.07; 'prototyping': 0.07; 'abstraction': 0.09; 'english,': 0.09; 'europython,': 0.09; 'models.': 0.09; 'percentage': 0.09; 'promising': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'language,': 0.12; '35+': 0.16; 'amenable': 0.16; 'ecosystem': 0.16; 'semantics': 0.16; 'statistics,': 0.16; 'subject:object': 0.16; 'subject:oriented': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'developer,': 0.19; 'split': 0.19; 'translated': 0.19; 'later': 0.20; 'meant': 0.20; 'programming': 0.22; 'email addr:gmail.com>': 0.22; 'saying': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'math': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'developers': 0.25; 'possibly': 0.26; 'post': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'certain': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'am,': 0.29; 'fastest': 0.30; 'needed.': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'getting': 0.31; 'attend': 0.31; 'that.': 0.31; 'towards': 0.31; 'adequate': 0.31; 'becoming': 0.31; 'developers.': 0.31; 'lightning': 0.31; 'this.': 0.32; 'another': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.33; 'framework': 0.33; 'implemented': 0.33; 'level.': 0.33; 'subject: (': 0.35; 'knows': 0.35; 'tool': 0.35; 'beyond': 0.35; 'more,': 0.35; 'objects': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'accuracy': 0.36; 'books,': 0.36; 'marks': 0.36; 'ram': 0.36; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; 'useful': 0.36; 'web,': 0.36; 'thanks': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'project': 0.37; 'level': 0.37; 'performance': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'feedback': 0.38; 'implement': 0.38; '(i.e.,': 0.38; 'massive': 0.38; 'needed': 0.38; 'conference': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'list,': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'previous': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'that,': 0.38; 'anything': 0.39; 'help,': 0.39; 'full': 0.61; 'kindly': 0.61; 'course': 0.61; 'simply': 0.61; 'simple': 0.61; 'further': 0.61; 'reach': 0.63; 'developed': 0.63; 'kind': 0.63; 'such': 0.63; 'decided': 0.64; 'our': 0.64; 'central': 0.64; 'interest': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'dear': 0.65; '30,': 0.65; 'levels': 0.65; 'modeling': 0.65; 'youtube': 0.65; 'to:addr:gmail.com': 0.65; 'charset:windows-1252': 0.65; 'reply': 0.66; 'contact': 0.67; 'believe': 0.68; 'brain': 0.68; 'insight': 0.68; 'url:be': 0.68; 'hesitate': 0.70; 'below.': 0.71; 'food': 0.72; 'jul': 0.74; 'goal': 0.75; 'hoping': 0.75; 'analysis': 0.75; 'topic,': 0.81; 'david,': 0.84; 'forecast,': 0.84; 'papers,': 0.84; 'prey': 0.84; 'procedural': 0.91; 'simulation': 0.91; 'url:youtu': 0.91; 'contacts': 0.97; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GGMDUn646CnoXwPYWGHU6vN6hM1XDKjVN4bcabNT2o4=; b=XtxPqZuiU+rdANePPIV9YSgtukdYwQyYl09/T33ZkAX+RNBYwupQonAlKLF2G4eMpW 1CW2nx7c8zmPk8e02rGQ9SOxseDephVc4aGnGvLPG5msBi1yg5Qe6aG8DggRsdtv/bz/ 3PHIkk2iqprsS4EVkhtTWrdmpOzPzRg5abvtAZs3mvH5FfekzcNw0W9GZmzeejg16Tzl TcTAnUwtGUQeJ7sGtSQBk8ClUXGg8j+pccGwzVD8BQpbz6VhoxPpWEYaWe7J1PvA+qa8 9fO12m8+jBX4lSaR4GYpaZAzcRssrw7HQ5KF6rS602ER0uv52BE+hUryk+uFsu6MdiW1 rjuA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.231.71 with SMTP id te7mr28505853vec.65.1375248709058; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 22:31:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 07:31:48 +0200 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Modeling_life_on_Earth_=96=2D_an_object=2Doriented_=28?= =?windows-1252?Q?Python=3F=29_challenge?= From: Luigi Ponti To: David Hutto Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc9a02c8054c04e2c80a52 Cc: python-list X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 264 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1375248718 news.xs4all.nl 15908 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:37854 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:51622 --047d7bdc9a02c8054c04e2c80a52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [...forgot to reply to the list...] Dear David, Thanks for your feedback -- you got right to the point: ...python would be more of a prototyping language, and later translated > into another language for faster maneuvering of data > exactly! I was hoping that, since the modeling framework is conceptually well developed (i.e., books, papers, analysis, etc. in 35+ years), most of the work would be towards getting the code up to the same conceptual (i.e., abstraction) level. Hence, I was thinking Python would be a good tool for that. Performance can be taken care of at a later stage, if needed. Please do not hesitate to drop a further line. Kind regards, Luigi On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 1:23 PM, David Hutto wrote= : > Never used pascal, and python might not be the fastest way to implement a > program such as this. > > In a previous discussion, this was taken place by someone using a predato= r > prey brain class.. > > The simulation will vary, until a full refinement of forecast is above a > certainty percentage level. > > Visualization is needed as well. > > Collaboration is, of course > , the best possible route. However you need to start with certain > statistics, and know there will be an Uncerrtainty Principle rule applied= . > > The algorithm for such massive amounts of data analysis in a simulation > forecast, will involve HD space and RAM > . > > You will also want to collaborate with certain databases in order to > refine the accuracy of your models. > > This is kind of what I would consider being a Dune(Frank Herbert) > planetary engineer. It also takes in other db data such as tagging marks = of > animals percentiles of bacterias/viruses/etc....SO it's not as simple as = it > sounds, and python would be more of a prototyping language, and later > translated into another language for faster maneuvering of data. > > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:57 AM, wrote: > >> Dear List, >> >> I have to start this email by saying that I have recently attended >> EuroPython in Florence, and it was the best and better organized confere= nce >> I have ever attended in 14 years of international meetings. >> >> I apologize if this is off topic, but I read in the list's description >> that =93[p]retty much anything Python-related is fair game for discussio= n=94. >> >> Although I am not a Python developer, I decided to attend EuroPython in >> search for a programmer interested in collaborating in the Python projec= t I >> briefly describe below. >> >> I use ecosystem models implemented with a procedural paradigm in a >> language different from Python (Pascal, for the records). I would like t= o >> migrate these ecosystem models (and code) to an object-oriented paradigm >> using Python, as I have come to believe its expressiveness would help a = lot >> get the semantics right, rather than simply split procedural code into >> objects corresponding to ecological elements. What's more, our models us= e >> physiological analogies among the different levels of the food chain or >> web, and this makes them amenable to an even higher level of >> object-oriented abstraction given adequate expressiveness. >> >> The goal is to go beyond the currently (mostly) formal implementation of >> the object-oriented paradigm in ecological models. To do that, I would n= eed >> help from an expert Python programmer (who also has some math skills, kn= ows >> English, and can work in the Rome area, or at least central Italy). I ne= ed >> help because I am a Python beginner with limited programming experience = in >> general, and hence my contribution will mainly be the ecosystem modeling >> insight. >> >> At EuroPython, I gave a lightning talk about the project that can be >> found on YouTube >> http://youtu.be/iUNbgNuN0qY?t=3D31m50s >> >> As I already made some very promising contacts at EuroPyton with >> developers that are interested and willing to help, and many people shar= ed >> their views and provided useful insight into the issue (thanks!), this p= ost >> is meant to get further feedback on my idea and possibly reach other >> interested developers. >> >> Kindly contact me if you have any interest in the idea and time to devot= e >> it, as it is becoming a funded project. >> >> Kind regards, thanks for any hint, and apologies for the many >> inaccuracies, >> >> Luigi >> -- >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list >> > > > > -- > Best Regards, > David Hutto > *CEO:* *http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com* > --047d7bdc9a02c8054c04e2c80a52 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
[...forgot to reply to the list...]

Dear David,

Thanks for your feedback -- = you got right to the point:

...python would be more of a prototyping language, and later translated int= o another language for faster maneuvering of data

exactly! I was hoping that, since the modeling framework is conceptually well=20 developed (i.e., books, papers, analysis, etc. in 35+ years), most of the w= ork would=20 be towards getting the code up to the same conceptual (i.e.,=20 abstraction) level. Hence, I was thinking Python would be a good tool=20 for that. Performance can be taken care of at a later stage, if needed.

Please do not hesitate to drop a furth= er line.

Kind regards,

Luigi


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 1:23 PM, David Hutto = <dwightdhutt= o@gmail.com> wrote:
Never used pascal, and python might not be = the fastest way to implement a program such as this.

In a previous discussion, this was taken place by someone using a= predator prey brain class..

The simulation will vary, until a full refinement of forecast is = above a certainty percentage level.

Visualization is needed as= well.

Collaboration is, of course
, the best possibl= e route. However you need to start with certain statistics, and know there = will be an Uncerrtainty Principle rule applied.

The algorithm for such massive amounts of data analysis in a simu= lation forecast, will involve HD space and RAM
.

You will a= lso want to collaborate with certain databases in order to refine the accur= acy of your models.

This is kind of what I would consider being a Dune(Frank Herbert)= planetary engineer. It also takes in other db data such as tagging marks o= f animals percentiles of bacterias/viruses/etc....SO it's not as simple= as it sounds, and python would be more of a prototyping language, and late= r translated into another language for faster maneuvering of data.



On= Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:57 AM, <quartese@gmail.com> wrote:=
Dear List,

I have to start this email by saying that I have recently attended EuroPyth= on in Florence, and it was the best and better organized conference I have = ever attended in 14 years of international meetings.

I apologize if this is off topic, but I read in the list's description = that =93[p]retty much anything Python-related is fair game for discussion= =94.

Although I am not a Python developer, I decided to attend EuroPython in sea= rch for a programmer interested in collaborating in the Python project I br= iefly describe below.

I use ecosystem models implemented with a procedural paradigm in a language= different from Python (Pascal, for the records). I would like to migrate t= hese ecosystem models (and code) to an object-oriented paradigm using Pytho= n, as I have come to believe its expressiveness would help a lot get the se= mantics right, rather than simply split procedural code into objects corres= ponding to ecological elements. What's more, our models use physiologic= al analogies among the different levels of the food chain or web, and this = makes them amenable to an even higher level of object-oriented abstraction = given adequate expressiveness.

The goal is to go beyond the currently (mostly) formal implementation of th= e object-oriented paradigm in ecological models. To do that, I would need h= elp from an expert Python programmer (who also has some math skills, knows = English, and can work in the Rome area, or at least central Italy). I need = help because I am a Python beginner with limited programming experience in = general, and hence my contribution will mainly be the ecosystem modeling in= sight.

At EuroPython, I gave a lightning talk about the project that can be found = on YouTube
http:/= /youtu.be/iUNbgNuN0qY?t=3D31m50s

As I already made some very promising contacts at EuroPyton with developers= that are interested and willing to help, and many people shared their view= s and provided useful insight into the issue (thanks!), this post is meant = to get further feedback on my idea and possibly reach other interested deve= lopers.

Kindly contact me if you have any interest in the idea and time to devote i= t, as it is becoming a funded project.

Kind regards, thanks for any hint, and apologies for the many inaccuracies,=

Luigi
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



--
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO= : http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com



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