Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: pylint woes Date: Mon, 9 May 2016 08:10:44 +1000 Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <572eb1c3$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <20160508085006.020cef65@imp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de mak7Hg81DtS4LcUIxvNx1gTa+fnanjsAem91UIKPUayA== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.003 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; '(b)': 0.07; 'familiarity': 0.07; 'properly.': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'frameworks,': 0.09; 'output?': 0.09; 'languages,': 0.15; '2016': 0.16; 'agree.': 0.16; 'centralized': 0.16; 'doing,': 0.16; 'executed,': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'means:': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'somewhere.': 0.16; 'verbose': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'debugging': 0.18; ';-)': 0.18; 'variable': 0.18; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; '(a)': 0.22; 'controlling': 0.22; 'function,': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'bit': 0.23; 'for?': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'all.': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'module': 0.25; "doesn't": 0.26; 'chris': 0.26; 'error': 0.27; 'logging': 0.27; 'wonder': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'developing': 0.28; 'fine': 0.28; 'dan': 0.29; 'disabling': 0.29; 'prints': 0.29; 'print': 0.30; 'work.': 0.30; 'code': 0.30; 'programmers': 0.30; 'embedded': 0.32; 'control,': 0.33; 'suddenly': 0.33; 'info': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'trouble': 0.35; 'next': 0.35; "isn't": 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'doing': 0.38; 'received:209': 0.38; 'why': 0.39; 'whatever': 0.39; "didn't": 0.39; 'called': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'easy': 0.60; 'reach': 0.61; 'more': 0.63; 'between': 0.65; 'superior': 0.67; 'teach': 0.70; 'sounds': 0.76; '(also,': 0.84; '+1000,': 0.84; 'absolutely.': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'etc,': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=BIq3qZzqjmvz0YM5+OAgu7djVlYG4IhtdidqJcP4Qvw=; b=tJ3306WBqxh72DIAcc/QuVQAguPf7r5HWWssD0GUsj0Xd3NcomqWpxOFFtZLOFipOi LWL9fQg7WY1Nh+CaRarK246DYb2VQqPXg+9TrSo3dv/3sjECeKQgZ67p8T7Be8FD+YFp 0+/U2M4epRSDlYhkN1URl5LnmKE9euvQPJ6tivOJp5RU/cw4Cl9OZ4Gel1BDrQBgxxxl kKOcdU2fLkZcnbLgWKauGHRSkZ5oT5WnpXRRpGjbGH1ffKfO5DxQQc9nCWcIKyUSwokZ oNmDEJxIIXr37/m8ghflEXXlxubRji7UKQAdYfvDcNPMHEnH4AcmSZsJYv7QHzVXnjhE jbQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=BIq3qZzqjmvz0YM5+OAgu7djVlYG4IhtdidqJcP4Qvw=; b=gGWuPn8YitHYhp5NLpP9godWfaF8meOdNyCxWq4/wruZGJ4yBO+Q6nD/pvlTyhSpzo KMsl+vM975bvQ6N5WznhzvoZsAueZ8GK1uWRvMg/OJy9Cqfio89UOEEFQJPfRW5RFODD mB6ygPwXc9PcgV89He5kV9SrcctwOYVRsktmHF+xcbPU8dsUn7onCewedOdknKxHDmwA T9ZAf/7kPqHegyYdZOSQuLTPByNH8AoA5EqKFUxZ2Jz1xcggM2b7bV5TjatBeW24ShTv 4T1byCASglNNJBWeXQoSsNVUNYrjN4ZEGpiXRCBTMrjNWX7lhssGR+cOXWcPGCVtG/98 M47g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FWdiTuObSUfxNekrhhMnHDzJsuuJB2R6lPAPuzu6RHRoEVf0v8viLqhC+eE/WTHAx7iB/CvB5jkdI8pZQ== X-Received: by 10.25.79.12 with SMTP id d12mr13774728lfb.68.1462745444293; Sun, 08 May 2016 15:10:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: X-Mailman-Original-References: <572eb1c3$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <20160508085006.020cef65@imp> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:108394 On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Dan Sommers wrote: > On Sun, 08 May 2016 23:01:55 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> ... I like to recommend a little thing called "IIDPIO debugging" - If >> In Doubt, Print It Out. That means: If you have no idea what a piece >> of code is doing, slap in a print() call somewhere. It'll tell you >> that (a) the code is actually being executed, and (b) whatever info >> you put between the parens (ideally, some key variable or >> parameter). Part A is often the important bit :) ... > > Having spent a long time developing embedded systems, I wholeheartedly > agree. In spirit. Isn't that what the logging module is for? Fine > grained control, as centralized or distributed as is warranted, over > program output? > >> ... The trouble with a verbose flag controlling all print() calls is >> that IIDPIO debugging suddenly doesn't work; plus, it's easy to copy >> and paste code to some other module and not notice that you don't have >> a verbosity check at the top, and then wonder why disabling verbose >> doesn't fully work. Both problems are solved by having a dedicated >> spam function, which will simply error out if you didn't set it up >> properly. > > Hey! That sounds just like the logging module.... ;-) Absolutely. I say "print" in IIDPIO because it's a word that people understand across languages, across frameworks, etc, etc, but when you start doing more of it, the logging module is definitely superior - if you need just one reason to use it, it would be to *leave those prints in place* so the next person doesn't need to reach for IIDPIO at all. (Also, I teach print() because it's one less module to explain. But experienced programmers should get some familiarity with it.) ChrisA