Path: csiph.com!news.mixmin.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <random832@fastmail.com>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'attributes': 0.07; 'differently': 0.07; 'empty,': 0.09; 'length.': 0.09; 'objects)': 0.09; 'objects.': 0.09; 'received:internal': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'language,': 0.11; 'talks': 0.11; 'message- id:@webmail.messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'namespace,': 0.16; 'objects).': 0.16; 'received:10.202': 0.16; 'received:10.202.2': 0.16; 'received:66.111': 0.16; 'received:66.111.4': 0.16; 'received:66.111.4.27': 0.16; 'received:messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'received:out3-smtp.messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'subject:reference': 0.16; 'subject:versus': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'sep': 0.22; 'elements': 0.23; 'represents': 0.23; 'implemented': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'module': 0.25; "i've": 0.25; '14,': 0.27; '[2]': 0.27; 'see,': 0.27; 'start,': 0.27; 'array': 0.29; 'objects': 0.29; 'another': 0.32; '[1]': 0.32; 'point': 0.33; 'problem': 0.33; 'except': 0.34; 'exist': 0.35; 'step': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'alone': 0.36; 'modules': 0.36; 'subject:" ': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'received:10': 0.37; 'received:66': 0.38; 'version': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'header:Message-Id:1': 0.61; 'more': 0.63; 'different': 0.63; 'fact,': 0.67; 'talking': 0.67; 'special': 0.73; 'stop,': 0.84
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=jr9iZfTqVxNiF4sH8w9feo6XvM4=; b=1HuTgt yoR9/cvjlCt6L7EgMqah5tevI9EFWR4utlZqp5ClEyDqFSCVeZe3rxoA+UWAmUe1 mpFbq196Y+dVYIOL/qUgIDtCOUHCJoRhM15RHif/8x5FNjQdnIguvOSzXmWiPMPE 5lixSklilVTen0NOZY3X9DgMnysbl6XwwIbEI=
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=jr9iZfTqVxNiF4s H8w9feo6XvM4=; b=JyrEpOMFG1LHSfOYFyO/94WmL8O2drXyOz9Sbuvv2rEpPOZ H/bagAtpbLE5K3FFh3KUGVyXfxiVhrEaJxwcTixBmBDao2wJAlZqYWQMuBtNdoIl uZFPZBd4b3CexExzemePyEJw1stmxmVEBMrXAKYLqqgh1586oyoF3OvEJB1c=
X-Sasl-Enc: KA3fjVUbwkfQnAFblDStIuL4kqjT5e76zl+7ZO4Crn8K 1442243411
From: Random832 <random832@fastmail.com>
To: python-list@python.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-c76b43ce
Subject: Re: Terminology: "reference" versus "pointer"
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:10:11 -0400
In-Reply-To: <874mix5a63.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <c3363$547e74fe$5419aafe$24179@news.ziggo.nl> <mt04ao$ite$1@ger.gmane.org> <m2zj0ss2md.fsf@fastmail.com> <85mvws6z45.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <m2k2rws0yr.fsf@fastmail.com> <85io7g6xy4.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <m2egi4rzz5.fsf@fastmail.com> <85egi46wng.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <m2zj0sqjl8.fsf@fastmail.com> <mailman.419.1442039210.8327.python-list@python.org> <d55daf4b-b7c2-41fb-8010-76d6d65eb6b8@googlegroups.com> <mailman.425.1442068881.8327.python-list@python.org> <1a1a1f6a-27ce-4c1b-807a-43eabaa04abb@googlegroups.com> <mailman.435.1442080562.8327.python-list@python.org> <04ca9d7c-d02b-4329-bd94-4d18d86b3edf@googlegroups.com> <87egi375wb.fsf@gmail.com> <m21te3qqeg.fsf@fastmail.com> <87wpvu5h7f.fsf@gmail.com> <m2egi2p2dr.fsf@fastmail.com> <87pp1l6h9a.fsf@gmail.com> <1442187517.2372486.382584889.2ED1B071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <874mix5a63.fsf@gmail.com>
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.533.1442243413.8327.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 22
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1442243413 news.xs4all.nl 23732 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:49267
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96570

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015, at 10:48, Akira Li wrote:
> start, stop, step attributes (corresponding Python ints) may not exist
> ("the objects we've talking about have never been created") until you
> request them explicitly.

That's not true in CPython. In fact, the range object in python contains
*four* reference boxes - one more for length.

> I've mentioned it in another message but to be clear, I consider "parcel
> tags" [1] and "box and arrows" [2] (boxes are always empty, they only
> point to objects) models to be the same and different from "labelled
> box" [3] model (boxes contain objects).

See, I consider the box and arrow to be the same as the labeled box
model - only the object the boxes contain is an arrow. Except for
special kinds of boxes implemented in some other language, such as the
elements of an array from the array module

The problem with "parcel tags" is that it represents namespaces - or one
particular namespace, I've never seen any version of it that even
clearly talks about locals, let alone different modules - differently
from other kinds of objects.