Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.016 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'new,': 0.05; 'terry': 0.07; 'twisted,': 0.07; 'python': 0.08; '(it': 0.09; 'relies': 0.09; 'zope,': 0.09; 'subject:file': 0.13; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.15; '(sometimes': 0.16; '[and': 0.16; 'adjusting': 0.16; 'hell,': 0.16; 'ignores': 0.16; 'ironpython,': 0.16; 'ported': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'retrieving': 0.16; 'trash': 0.16; 'true)': 0.16; 'wearing': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'jan': 0.19; "haven't": 0.20; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.21; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'feature.': 0.23; 'subject:use': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.25; '(in': 0.26; 'pm,': 0.26; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'alternatives': 0.28; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.29; '(and': 0.29; 'exist.': 0.30; 'humans': 0.30; 'porting': 0.30; 'received:209.85.210.46': 0.30; 'received:mail- pz0-f46.google.com': 0.30; 'wasting': 0.30; 'anyone': 0.31; 'dependent': 0.32; 'familiar': 0.32; 'tue,': 0.32; 'there': 0.33; 'something': 0.35; 'project': 0.35; 'uses': 0.36; 'things,': 0.36; 'received:google.com': 0.37; 'amounts': 0.38; 'wife': 0.38; 'received:209.85': 0.38; 'problems': 0.38; 'subject:with': 0.38; 'but,': 0.38; 'received:209': 0.39; 'subject:: ': 0.39; 'one,': 0.40; 'your': 0.61; 'course,': 0.61; 'cost': 0.62; 'world': 0.62; 'projects': 0.62; 'free': 0.63; '31,': 0.64; 'making': 0.65; 'car': 0.66; 'realized': 0.73; 'imagine': 0.74; '"how': 0.80; 'cartoon': 0.84; 'gratis.': 0.84; 'metaphor': 0.84; 'much)': 0.84; 'notion': 0.84; 'sacrifice': 0.84; 'sweater': 0.84; 'husband': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=pbbMcWKcl1FrlSyLI3tqkOlyK4AiZohO5IU+OjPoefE=; b=gF1NzC5B6j5+gdkL8D9ZR48hLpmCDGlg8oUzRo6Oyt0YuLlJgu8pbVq49FKAg09HAh RaOlLNLQ6JskQQPnz6ZsT1e58C+7+wZuhkyQonYaxFxZ+oza9tg6ZdcQfHlKqxfKFrwA mtL2ifgKK+C55Dzz8RIbGhu9zBFOIgrxvKIYQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <12592360.1754.1327959045517.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vby1> <4f27d81e$0$29989$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <4F27F861.8020505@sequans.com> From: Devin Jeanpierre Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 06:14:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Disable use of pyc file with no matching py file To: Terry Reedy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: python-list@python.org X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1328094932 news.xs4all.nl 6919 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:40210 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:19705 On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > Q. "How do I make my old model car do something (it cannot do)?" > A. "Get the free new model that has that feature added." > > Of course, there is a cost to giving up the old and familiar and learning > and adjusting to the new, even when it is available gratis. A husband > wearing an old sweater after his wife gives him a new one, and even > retrieving it from the trash when she tosses it out, is a classic (and true) > cartoon joke. It really bothers me that you imagine that there are no other problems than the newness. It's disheartening, because the problems are not that trivial and the world would be better if people were less callous about it, and realized that they exist. Python 3 is not very different from Python 2, as far as humans are concerned semantically/syntactically -- but, hell, just pick any project that uses PyPy, or Jython, or IronPython, or Twisted, or Zope, etc. -- it can be a lot of effort (sometimes infeasibly much) to port something dependent on these things, and it's taken years to get the (smallish) set of dependencies ported that we have now [and we literally paid people to do it, too!], and still many large projects haven't made the transition, and many small projects never will. Anyone that relies on those projects is stuck, and your "free car" metaphor completely ignores the true cost of wasting that much time porting everything for a tiny little feature. Evaluating only the monetary amounts can be misleading as to what the rational decision is (in particular when there are no monetary amounts). The only true notion of cost is the alternatives you sacrifice in making a decision: opportunity cost. The car is not free. -- Devin