Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.024 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.95; '*S*': 0.00; 'collier': 0.09; 'lines.': 0.09; 'recommends': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'windows': 0.15; '*never*': 0.16; 'limiting': 0.16; 'linux).': 0.16; 'pane': 0.16; 'pep8': 0.16; 'side.': 0.16; 'somewhere.': 0.16; 'url:pep-0008': 0.16; 'url:peps': 0.16; 'usenet': 0.16; 'width.': 0.16; 'sender:addr:gmail.com': 0.17; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'all,': 0.19; '>>>': 0.22; 'code,': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'scroll': 0.24; 'url:dev': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'least': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.27; 'tried': 0.27; 'character': 0.29; 'unix': 0.29; 'characters': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'program,': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'lines': 0.31; '+0100,': 0.31; 'clever': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'horizontal': 0.31; 'indentation': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'class': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.33; 'actual': 0.34; 'moment': 0.34; 'screen': 0.34; 'johnson': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'programming,': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'being': 0.38; 'window': 0.38; 'handle': 0.38; 'short': 0.38; 'skip:& 20': 0.39; 'extremely': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'even': 0.60; 'read': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'devices': 0.61; 'eye': 0.61; 'july': 0.63; 'maximum': 0.63; 'map': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'between': 0.67; 'email,': 0.69; 'jul': 0.74; 'excessive': 0.84; 'flipping': 0.84; 'strain': 0.84; 'serious': 0.97; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=TY3Znf4v+PiBh9sY9ttLRRgXdKAhwj0lN3fFC+J9ZY8=; b=WVmwhWOAmK+ha5vbjTT8b+nZZlL2/CLHtP70yAtDh/2XIsRFlhz6Md49rvwkIeNky+ MtZMlaaGaQhNz+brTKJy6s+yU2AEY1VeRfn8e4cFtQ09Q2bAhKg+1gujYm/xGYfxQW/2 Zg3+tOem3aqMtsulypSpp5OA5eTeUQsDzjfx2fpXRvYMg6wF8V74QvbuvfQzFobxpok0 Io+6ZldoECZRXV7Q+ZaHf30rG4nxzhWd+hiOhukuuun5Y9a/9ckUE+45Fw6BMcIwcLat gdy3QW6Pyk8yhw1zF1eu49usrfZO7hirFTncjNUld4nVTyKwj2ILSrk1hDkF1LMAAQAG HxIg== X-Received: by 10.152.42.171 with SMTP id p11mr27568232lal.79.1375143118544; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:11:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: <51f6d9f6$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> From: Joshua Landau Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 01:11:18 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: CPaiHjP_tp9uIY9psngLOjsyFQc Subject: Re: PEP8 79 char max To: Rhodri James Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3565618a5e504e2af7571 Cc: python-list X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 121 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1375143127 news.xs4all.nl 15919 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:35631 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:51530 --001a11c3565618a5e504e2af7571 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 30 July 2013 00:08, Rhodri James wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 22:09:10 +0100, Steven D'Aprano < > steve+comp.lang.python@**pearwood.info> > wrote: > > On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 15:43:49 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: >> >> In Python programming, the PEP8 recommends limiting lines to a maximum >>> of 79 characters because "There are still many devices around that are >>> limited to 80 character lines" >>> (http://www.python.org/dev/**peps/pep-0008/#code-lay-out). >>> What devices >>> cannot handle 80 or more characters on a line? >>> >> >> The only one I can think of is actual xterms (Ctrl-Alt-Function key >> terminals on Unix and Linux). But I think that's actually a red-herring. >> At least for me, I don't care about devices with 80 character lines. >> (Smart phones? Or is that more likely to be 40 character lines?) >> >> I care about being able to put multiple windows side-by-side, or a single >> window with code in one pane and a class map at the side. I care about >> being able to copy and paste code into an email, or Usenet post, without >> it being mangled. I care about *never* having to scroll left-to-right in >> order to read a line. >> >> And most of all, I care about lines being short enough to read without >> eye strain and mental fatigue from excessive horizontal width. >> > > +1 > > I'm working on some shonky C code at the moment that inconsistent > indentation and very long lines. It is extremely annoying not to be able > to put the original code, my "translation" and sundry utilities all > side-by-side on the same screen (and it's not a particularly small screen), > and having to keep flipping between them slows me down dramatically. Long > lines have no effect on the speed of the program, but they can have serious > effects on the speed of the programmer. > Then just wrap it. This is a very automatable thing for editors. There might even be a clever hard-wrap somewhere. I just tried pyformat -- that works wonders. --001a11c3565618a5e504e2af7571 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 30 July 2013 00:08, Rhodri James <= rhodri@wil= debst.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 22:09:= 10 +0100, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.i= nfo> wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 15:43:49 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote:

In Python programming, the PEP8 recommends limiting lines to a maximum
of 79 characters because "There are still many devices around that are=
limited to 80 character lines"
(http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#code-lay-out). What devices
cannot handle 80 or more characters on a line?

The only one I can think of is actual xterms (Ctrl-Alt-Function key
terminals on Unix and Linux). But I think that's actually a red-herring= .
At least for me, I don't care about devices with 80 character lines. (Smart phones? Or is that more likely to be 40 character lines?)

I care about being able to put multiple windows side-by-side, or a single window with code in one pane and a class map at the side. I care about
being able to copy and paste code into an email, or Usenet post, without it being mangled. I care about *never* having to scroll left-to-right in order to read a line.

And most of all, I care about lines being short enough to read without
eye strain and mental fatigue from excessive horizontal width.

+1

I'm working on some shonky C code at the moment that inconsistent inden= tation and very long lines. =C2=A0It is extremely annoying not to be able t= o put the original code, my "translation" and sundry utilities al= l side-by-side on the same screen (and it's not a particularly small sc= reen), and having to keep flipping between them slows me down dramatically.= =C2=A0Long lines have no effect on the speed of the program, but they can = have serious effects on the speed of the programmer.= =C2=A0

Then = just wrap it. This is a very automatable thing for editors. There might eve= n be a clever hard-wrap somewhere. I just tried pyformat -- that works wond= ers.
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