Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.fsmpi.rwth-aachen.de!newsfeed.kamp.net!newsfeed.kamp.net!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!82.197.223.108.MISMATCH!feeder2.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!85.12.40.139.MISMATCH!xlned.com!feeder7.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.026 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.95; '*S*': 0.00; 'column': 0.07; 'to:addr:pobox.com': 0.09; 'to:addr:skip': 0.09; 'typed': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'books': 0.15; '80.': 0.16; 'between.': 0.16; 'length.': 0.16; 'limiting': 0.16; 'margin': 0.16; '\xc2\xa0i': 0.16; '(you': 0.16; 'sender:addr:gmail.com': 0.17; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'all,': 0.19; 'meant': 0.20; 'written': 0.21; 'programming': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'print': 0.22; 'skip': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; '>': 0.26; 'purposes': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'words': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'characters': 0.30; 'important.': 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'included': 0.31; 'lines': 0.31; 'argue': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'exclude': 0.31; 'indentation': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'trivial': 0.31; 'regular': 0.32; 'text': 0.33; 'except': 0.35; 'no,': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'useful': 0.36; 'performance': 0.37; 'sometimes': 0.38; 'skip:& 10': 0.38; 'flow': 0.39; 'read': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'length': 0.61; 'desk': 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'hear': 0.63; 'july': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'between': 0.67; 'book,': 0.68; 'special': 0.74; '100': 0.79; 'irrelevant': 0.84; 'whereas': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=trKwICVBdALP7MmwsWBWOKuUCqY3hyIvk6Gp8jEnzuQ=; b=QBGYqBG6+Lo6valHsat7QphPA9OK1Ix87/MLHFjBG7I07aqthkDCoVN1tbTuO7X697 UuMQaZXohhj9TyikabamPuyKej/MfUw8nYl0/nzBAZhXbSMHanANcUi7YjwffxH0bwFC ndnJiJHJqtdIJt5aEWA61tEjA5RMjU2PrNsQGxULh38iEIh5ynThDUf2Gy5XPLQMvpS0 YjZIyoBHjpzKaez7p7q5Z24eQRXPP7zLnO2nFN1S1Cz2FnofqPcb38yO9hqVATf0bVbi Lj3YtlmaThqlveo64qlUlW8xACJHJeA0ksQRycw+sFZdmQQj9ClmVZHihsDH7Bh5Nl57 xPtg== X-Received: by 10.112.33.205 with SMTP id t13mr9075906lbi.22.1375135702071; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: <51F6C5F5.5020201@Gmail.com> From: Joshua Landau Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 23:07:42 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: tBpyVB2-GuwgDTThfUKkGf-a0Z4 Subject: Re: PEP8 79 char max To: Skip Montanaro Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae93d94b80a41c804e2adbb75 Cc: Python X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 89 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1375135710 news.xs4all.nl 15949 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:53487 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:51510 --14dae93d94b80a41c804e2adbb75 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 29 July 2013 22:18, Skip Montanaro wrote: > For the purposes of limiting the length you need to scan between first > and last column, I would recommend leaving the recommended line length > to ~ 80 columns. > > Just for grins, I grabbed a non-computer book, Atul Gawande's > "Checklist Manifesto," from the pile on my desk and counted the number > of characters in a full-width line. 70. Then I grabbed my copy of > "Mastering Regular Expressions" and counted the number of characters > in a full-width line of text which also included a few special > characters. 80. > > I think the history of printing offers a good gauge for the useful > limits to line length. After all, print publishers have been at this > for more than a few years. > > As I typed this, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > > No, it is irrelevant to performance, except performance of the reader. > > Whose performance, I would argue is most important. > > I would like to hear of books meant to be read with page or column > widths of 100 or more characters. I suspect they would be few and far > between. > In that gauge I would exclude indentation (you don't count the number of characters the margin takes) and would point out that programming doesn't have generically-wrapped lines -- sometimes the wrapping of a line is more distracting than its length. Written text has a completely different flow to programs; written text is read sequentially where missing the reading of words is a trivial and oft occurrence whereas programming is highly structured. --14dae93d94b80a41c804e2adbb75 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 29 July 2013 22:18, Skip Montanaro &l= t;skip@pobox.com>= ; wrote:
For the purposes of limiting the length you need to scan between first
and last column, I would recommend leaving the recommended line length
to ~ 80 columns.

Just for grins, I grabbed a non-computer book, Atul Gawande's
"Checklist Manifesto," from the pile on my desk and counted the n= umber
of characters in a full-width line. =C2=A070. =C2=A0Then I grabbed my copy = of
"Mastering Regular Expressions" and counted the number of charact= ers
in a full-width line of text which also included a few special
characters. =C2=A080.

I think the history of printing offers a good gauge for the useful
limits to line length. =C2=A0After all, print publishers have been at this<= br> for more than a few years.

As I typed this, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> No, it is irrelevant to performance, except performance of the reader.=

Whose performance, I would argue is most important.

I would like to hear of books meant to be read with page or column
widths of 100 or more characters. =C2=A0I suspect they would be few and far=
between.

In that gauge I would exclude = indentation (you don't count the number of characters the margin takes)= and would point out that programming doesn't have generically-wrapped = lines -- sometimes the wrapping of a line is more distracting than its leng= th. Written text has a completely different flow to programs; written text = is read sequentially where missing the reading of words is a trivial and of= t occurrence whereas programming is highly structured.
--14dae93d94b80a41c804e2adbb75--