Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.013 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.02; 'patterns': 0.04; 'static': 0.04; 'class,': 0.07; 'variables': 0.07; 'coding,': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'mostly': 0.14; 'data)': 0.16; 'hint': 0.16; 'received:9': 0.16; 'received:ibm.com': 0.16; 'roy': 0.16; 'screen,': 0.16; 'subject:API': 0.16; 'subject:Object': 0.16; 'subject:oriented': 0.16; 'written.': 0.16; 'do.': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'passing': 0.19; 'later': 0.20; 'coding': 0.22; 'either.': 0.24; 'skip:l 30': 0.24; 'header:Received:8': 0.24; 'initial': 0.24; 'java': 0.24; 'looks': 0.24; 'question': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; '>': 0.26; 'class.': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'said,': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'bunch': 0.31; 'hacker': 0.31; 'class': 0.32; 'probably': 0.32; '(i.e.': 0.33; 'style': 0.33; 'noticed': 0.34; 'maybe': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'classes': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'bought': 0.36; 'c++': 0.36; 'data,': 0.36; 'done,': 0.36; 'method': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'being': 0.38; 'problems': 0.38; 'initially': 0.38; 'somebody': 0.38; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'even': 0.60; 'around.': 0.60; 'wonderful': 0.60; 'interview': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; 'real': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'worth': 0.66; 'here': 0.66; 'subject:. ': 0.67; 'smith': 0.68; 'behavior': 0.77; 'yourself': 0.78; 'applicants': 0.83; 'functions)': 0.84; 'giveaway': 0.84; 'investment.': 0.84; 'lately,': 0.84; 'now...': 0.84; 'regret': 0.91 In-Reply-To: References: <51678b94$0$29977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> To: python-list@python.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Functional vs. Object oriented API X-KeepSent: B257D553:80BBC057-85257B4B:00557AED; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0.2 HF623 January 16, 2009 From: David M Chess Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:37:28 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D01ML605/01/M/IBM(Release 9.0|February 24, 2013) at 04/12/2013 11:37:30 AM, Serialize complete at 04/12/2013 11:37:30 AM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0055D40785257B4B_=" X-TM-AS-MML: No X-Content-Scanned: Fidelis XPS MAILER x-cbid: 13041215-7182-0000-0000-000006366931 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 108 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1365781667 news.xs4all.nl 2664 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:42620 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:43465 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0055D40785257B4B_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Roy Smith > As part of our initial interview screen, we give applicants some small > coding problems to do. One of the things we see a lot is what you could > call "Java code smell". This is our clue that the person is really a > Java hacker at heart who just dabbles in Python but isn't really fluent. > ... > It's not just LongVerboseFunctionNamesInCamelCase(). Nor is it code > that looks like somebody bought the Gang of Four patterns book and is > trying to get their money's worth out of the investment. The real dead > giveaway is when they write classes which contain a single static method > and nothing else. I may have some lingering Java smell myself, although I've been working mostly in Python lately, but my reaction here is that's really I don't know "BASIC smell" or something; a class that contains a single static method and nothing else isn't wonderful Java design style either. > That being said, I've noticed in my own coding, it's far more often that > I start out writing some functions and later regret not having initially > made it a class, than the other way around. That's as true in my C++ > code as it is in my Python. Definitely. > Once you start having state (i.e. data) and behavior (i.e. functions) in > the same thought, then you need a class. If you find yourself passing > the same bunch of variables around to multiple functions, that's a hint > that maybe there's a class struggling to be written. And I think equally to the point, even if you have only data, or only functions, right now, if the thing in question has that thing-like feel to it :) you will probably find yourself with both before you're done, so you might as well make it a class now... DC --=_alternative 0055D40785257B4B_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Roy Smith <roy@panix.com>

> As part of our initial interview screen, we give applicants some small
> coding problems to do.  One of the things we see a lot is what you could
> call "Java code smell".  This is our clue that the person is really a
> Java hacker at heart who just dabbles in Python but isn't really fluent.  
> ...
> It's not just LongVerboseFunctionNamesInCamelCase().  Nor is it code
> that looks like somebody bought the Gang of Four patterns book and is
> trying to get their money's worth out of the investment.  The real dead
> giveaway is when they write classes which contain a single static method
> and nothing else.

I may have some lingering Java smell myself, although I've been working mostly in Python lately, but my reaction here is that's really I don't know "BASIC smell" or something; a class that contains a single static method and nothing else isn't wonderful Java design style either.

> That being said, I've noticed in my own coding, it's far more often that
> I start out writing some functions and later regret not having initially
> made it a class, than the other way around.  That's as true in my C++
> code as it is in my Python.
Definitely.

> Once you start having state (i.e. data) and behavior (i.e. functions) in
> the same thought, then you need a class.  If you find yourself passing
> the same bunch of variables around to multiple functions, that's a hint
> that maybe there's a class struggling to be written.

And I think equally to the point, even if you have only data, or only functions, right now, if the thing in question has that thing-like feel to it :) you will probably find yourself with both before you're done, so you might as well make it a class now...

DC

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